Stu Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 50 minutes ago, BRASSO said: I was present at several of these DCI Championships. So " I am in the know ". I was present, for example at the Montreal DCI Championships in 82, and know that the DCI paid attendance numbers released to the public was not " made up numbers ", nor " estimated numbers ", The IRS does not want " estimated numbers " They want to know real paid numbers, gross receipts, ticket sales. The DCI championship was a TWO day prelims for world Class level Corps, not a THREE day. The Finals Night PAID Attendance ( for just one season as an example ) was far larger in 1982 than any of the recent PAID attendance Finals Night PAID attendance. I don't need any anonymous email from someone to you to tell me what I know on this. Nobody that was present in 1982 Finals Night will make the claim that the PAID Finals Night Attendance the last few seaaons at Indy on Finals nite is even close to the Finals Night PAID attendance at DCI Championships in 1982. There is no value to be had at attempts thru revisionisat history to discredit DCI's method of calculating its PAID attendance figures in former years as a lame attempt to prop up the present. We are on solid ground when we say that DCI has had an increase in its PAID attendance at Regionals and on Finals Night over some recent previous years. We lose credibility with folks that were PRESENT at Finals Championships, when some anonymous person wants to imply that DCI did not know what they were doing regarding Finals Night PAID attendance counting in previous years. Thats ridiculous, no matter who you supposedly got an email from. The lowest Finals Night attendance I attended was in 1993 in Jackson, Miss. It was far lower than Indy the last few seasons as a matter of fact. On the other hand, I attended DCI Finals Night in the 80's that I KNOW were larger than Finals Night attendance in Indy the last few seasons. I don;t need anyone that was not present in the 1970's DCI Championships either ( I was present for some of them too ), or the 1980's Finals Night, 1990's, 2000;s etc, to tell me what I already know, and what I SAW and what DCI released to the public. So thats that, Stu, and people can say, believe, whatever they want. I don't care about the disbelievers, nor should I much care about them either. I personally think this topic has about run its course now, and perhaps its time to move on from it. Those that have convinced themselves that DCI somehow did not know how to accurarately count and state publically their PAID Finals Night Attendance figures in some previous DCI years are not going to be persuaded otherwise on the ridiculousness of that claim on DCI officials, so its time now to move on, imo You were there at these events, well good for you!!! But that does not mean you are or were in the know; unless, of course, you were on the team actually responsible for presenting the numbers or you yourself literally counted the actual butts in the seats compared to paid ticket sales at those events. But suffice it to say that the in the know person I have contacted actually was/is in the know. And according to that person, and this is important, the receipt revenue and other DCI revenue back then were certainly reported accurately to the IRS; no doubt about that whatsoever. But back then there was also absolutely no official cross-reference counting done as to the number of ‘paid’ attendance to the number entering the gate (total money from receipts collected was known and reported with other revenue, yes; accurate number of people with paid tickets, comp tickets, and wrist-bands entering the gate, heck no). So, if this is not enough to convince ya, well you are in that lol category you posted about where people will still believe what they want to believe!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: Montreal doesnt count because it wasn't live on finals....Midwest does. and since DCi has never clarified what was paid and what wasn't prior to 1997, we really have no idea. That is why I said "most attended finals yearS"... just in case someone was going to claim 1981 was some sort of aberration. Now, to say we have "no idea" whether the most attended DCI finals was in the PBS era, or in more recent years? Seriously? Total attendance for the 1981 finals was reported to be 35,947. Do you really believe that paid attendance was less than 24,309? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Who cares what the attendance is now, compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago? Different eras, different dynamics, different...well... a lot of stuff. LOL. The only thing that matters now is... is the activity currently on a sound footing, and are there opportunities for growth? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 1 minute ago, cixelsyd said: That is why I said "most attended finals yearS"... just in case someone was going to claim 1981 was some sort of aberration. Now, to say we have "no idea" whether the most attended DCI finals was in the PBS era, or in more recent years? Seriously? Total attendance for the 1981 finals was reported to be 35,947. Do you really believe that paid attendance was less than 24,309? Do you know first hand how many comped tickets, wrist-bands, etc... filtered through the gate back then? If so, we can have an accurate count of paid attendance compared to number of butts in the seats. If not, well....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, Stu said: Do you know first hand how many comped tickets, wrist-bands, etc... filtered through the gate back then? If so, we can have an accurate count of paid attendance compared to number of butts in the seats. If not, well....... I will take that as a "no". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 12 hours ago, Stu said: Taxation is compulsory with prison a possible punishment for non compliance. Also, when entities like PBS, DCI corps, etc... seek governmental grants and other tax payer funding that connection does make discussions concerning both subjects appropriate. It's sea lions all the way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 42 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: Good lord, you'll argue anything into it's basic atomic compound no matter how much is shown to you that you aren't correct. This is probably the most accurate statement in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 31 minutes ago, Fran Haring said: Who cares what the attendance is now, compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago? Different eras, different dynamics, different...well... a lot of stuff. LOL. The only thing that matters now is... is the activity currently on a sound footing, and are there opportunities for growth? Totally agree!!! It drives me nuts when people make these type of comparisons, we live in a completely different cultural and economic landscape! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 50 minutes ago, Fran Haring said: Who cares what the attendance is now, compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago? The people participating in this discussion care. 18 minutes ago, Cappybara said: Totally agree!!! It drives me nuts when people make these type of comparisons, we live in a completely different cultural and economic landscape! Well, then you may want to just skip over this thread. Generally, when people compile data points over 40+ years, discussion comparing now vs. then will eventually follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Stu said: Maybe the same, but there are many who were 'in the know' back then. And as you well know, I can't even PM ya the info without that person's permission. not a problem. I've checked with more than a few sources Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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