ouooga Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Just now, Cappybara said: Hmm I can think of a few shows that treated the field like a set and modified the set throughout. A few BD shows (13, 15, and even 18 come to mind), Phantom 2008, Cadets 2011, Academy 2016, hell even SCV is doing it this year (though not as clearly as the above examples) How do you feel Phantom 08 modified the set? Or even Academy 16 for that matter, unless you're referring to the chairs/gravestones. What I mean by modifying the set is that the show starts with the fielding looking one way, and ends looking different, but the middle part doesn't have members pushing props around all the while to get there. So Boston enters the field, and there's a forest on one end, an empty fire pit at the bottom. By the end, the fire is going strong and the forest has been chopped down. The corps' story has modified what the field looked like. But those other ones you mentioned, those are all just props. Effective props, just like SCV's disappearing phantom prop in 88/89 was an effective prop, but props. BD moves props around the field to alter the visual element at the moment, which is a different format entirely IMO. Cadets, ya, I'll give you 11, but it's really just the big field tarps at the end, and arguably you could take/leave those and the show would be largely the same. Keep in mind, there's no rubric or definition of this stuff as far as I know, and everything I mentioned absolutely falls into that grey area. So this is definitely just my $.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Box5Opinion said: What? Some needs to see more BOA shows! Bleh, no. Ever since I found drum corps, marching band became completely lost on me. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw any BOA show, taped or live, but it's definitely been more than a decade. But if some of this is being done in HS bands, is anything really innovative anymore? Honestly. Just from the numbers alone, plus where the design staffs mostly spend their day jobs, marching band has to be the catalyst for this stuff moreso than drum corps, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, ouooga said: Bleh, no. Ever since I found drum corps, marching band became completely lost on me. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw any BOA show, taped or live, but it's definitely been more than a decade. But if some of this is being done in HS bands, is anything really innovative anymore? Honestly. Just from the numbers alone, plus where the design staffs mostly spend their day jobs, marching band has to be the catalyst for this stuff moreso than drum corps, right? 2 Some of this stuff may have been done in BOA before it was in DCI..remember the DCI people ARE the BOA people for many Edited August 7, 2018 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box5Opinion Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: Some of this stuff may have done in BOA before it was in DCI..remember the DCI people ARE the BOA people for many Exactly, someone else gets it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatzzz Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: Some of this stuff may have been done in BOA before it was in DCI..remember the DCI people ARE the BOA people for many BAC fire from 2017 was first done by Avon HS in 2014 I believe. There really isn't anything out there that hasn't been done before somewhere by someone. And you know what? **GASP** There are a TON of bands out there with more creative concepts and better visual and musical packages than some of the WC corps on any given summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphabetmonkey Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I feel like learning about innovation cannot be done by simply watching a show. Reading thoughts from show designers and composers tends to reveal the innovation for me. My ears are not good enough to hear innovative techniques without having some backstory first. Someone may have played, say, a reverse chord (like those fabricated by music engineers, the band Yes used a lot of these) on the field but my ears may not pick up on it unless it was told to me it was happening. It would be innovative, but not from a purely observational perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spatzzz said: BAC fire from 2017 was first done by Avon HS in 2014 I believe. There really isn't anything out there that hasn't been done before somewhere by someone. And you know what? **GASP** There are a TON of bands out there with more creative concepts and better visual and musical packages than some of the WC corps on any given summer. Very true..... Blues stars shows were done ( sewing machines ).. and I judged ( i think it was Tarpon Springs ) doing the godfather show the fall before BD did it. WE are a very inbred activity Edited August 7, 2018 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Super Don-O said: I don't understand the laser-like focus everyone seems to put on the idea of "innovative". It can be super well designed and performed without having to have re-envisioned what drum corps is. I agree with other posters about the way Vanguard uses and integrates the nesting stages as being innovative, but in reality the reason it is an effective show is thrilling music, a creative overall design package that integrates the visual with the music perfectly, tons of demand performed really cleanly, and a hell of a lot of confidence and swagger. Leaders innovate. It is the very definition of leadership in an activity of this sort. Scoring well is nice, but DEFINITELY has nothing to do with leadership. Being weird also isn't leadership. I think what Mandarins have done the last two years is truly as daring as a corps of their status could be. E-MC2 is one of the most ground-breaking shows ever made. Down Side Up has without question redefined what a drum corps show can be—and now is quickly becoming. Garfield Cadets created the entire concept of asymmetrical drill. I still watch the first show where they gave the middle finger to history and marvel at how ###### daring it was. No one says you have to innovate. But leaders innovate. It is in their DNA. Edited August 7, 2018 by MikeRapp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cappybara said: There is no ramming of notes or elaborate/disruptive features. THANK YOU! I am SO over "here comes the drum line front and center for their completely out of context, ram as many notes as possible into 30 seconds, feature—and then go back to the show." It's so blatantly obvious that it's nothing more than a scoring sop. Edited August 7, 2018 by MikeRapp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: Leaders innovate. It is the very definition of leadership in an activity of this sort. Scoring well is nice, but DEFINITELY has nothing to do with leadership. Being weird also isn't leadership. I think what Mandarins have done the last two years is truly as daring as a corps of their status could be. E-MC2 is one of the most ground-breaking shows ever made. Down Side Up has without question redefined what a drum corps show can be—and now is quickly becoming. Garfield Cadets created the entire concept of asymmetrical drill. I still watch the first show where they gave the middle finger to history and marvel at how ###### daring it was. No one says you have to innovate. But leaders innovate. It is in their DNA. I thought it was Santa Clara who first did asymmetric drill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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