Stu Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 30 minutes ago, HockeyDad said: Are you suggesting that all churches are NOT being scrutinized? I don’t know where you live but they sure are where I live. Fair? I don’t know. But life ain’t fair. You cannot legislate how people feel or react to things. And the same people are deciding whether to allow corps to stay at their schools. Seems a pretty simple concept to me. Nope. I am suggesting that if assessing risk based on perception is reality is desirable to err on the side of caution concerning all drum corps staying at a facility, that exact same type of assesment should be placed on all churces in denying them the same facility access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Stu said: Nope. I am suggesting that if assessing risk based on perception is reality is desirable to err on the side of caution concerning all drum corps staying at a facility, that exact same type of assesment should be placed on all churces in denying them the same facility access. Well have been on both ends allowing and denying access to a church. Allowed because groups had a good record in treating facilities with respect and any group dealing with youth had good policies and history on checking for predators (PA check and nationwide list). Also local groups we could contact in case of issues. Denied because facilities not treated with respect (kids group and they let the kids run wild). Cant remember any “who the bleep are they” requests but would not be allowed until found out more. Edited April 8, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 1 hour ago, garfield said: You are making the EXACT case for why the DCI executive office must be solely responsible for the optics of the general activity instead of the individual corps having that responsibility. It wasn't always that way, but it is now and it represents a growing understanding among the past leadership that, despite some opinions to the contrary, there are some functions that are not directly in DCI/Exec's wheelhouse specifically according to the Exec's duties as enumerated in the By-Laws, but that are better to be run centrally non-the-less. So, that's a good thing, right? Worthy of public press, right? So how, exactly, does DCI proclaim that structural change to neophytes or the only-casually-interested in a way that is concise and understandable as positive change? Curious... That is a job for specialist professional PR people to do, and it takes a lot of thought and effort from said individuals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 11 hours ago, Stu said: Granted, perception impacts behavior. But truth trumps perception. And if it doesn't, then idiotic perception prevails. if you haven't paid attention to anything in this world, truth very rarely counters perception, right or wrong. While I realize you live in a black and white hard stop world, of course except for when you need to split words and phrases to sub atomic particle levels, the rest of the world doesn't. Ergo, if any schools perceive it's an issue, it's a problem. And schools don't have time or energy top scroll through DCI's website and read a statement that often leaves a lot to....perception. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 11 hours ago, Stu said: Yes, but presumtion of innocence also matters in both cases. no one said anything about innocent or guilt. the topic is about changes to DCi since the article came out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 11 hours ago, Stu said: In the case of Ray Rice I did not hear anybody holding the Cowboys, the Dolphins, or any team other than the Ravens and NFL as the governing body accountable. It was a specific issue to Ravens and NFL, not to any of the other teams. In the case of the kneeling in protest, not merely sitting yet respecting, but actually protesting, when a person is in the uniform of their employer and on the clock, their freedom of protest expression can and should be curtailed to the desires of the team owner and the governing body that is over the employer. Out of uniform and off the clock individual freedom of protest prevails, but not in uniform and on the clock because during those times they are official representatives of the employer. well yes they did...they served notice to all teams this type of behavior would be unacceptable. In face Zeke got suspened for 6 games for something not proven conclusively by law enforcement, nor was there video evidence. So the NFL decided this rule now fits all. So it did indeed affect everyone. No sweeping it under the rug or "handling it internally with the front office" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: if you haven't paid attention to anything in this world, truth very rarely counters perception, right or wrong. While I realize you live in a black and white hard stop world, of course except for when you need to split words and phrases to sub atomic particle levels, the rest of the world doesn't. Ergo, if any schools perceive it's an issue, it's a problem. And schools don't have time or energy top scroll through DCI's website and read a statement that often leaves a lot to....perception. Slow down there, professor, I don’t get it. Just kidding. What I meant to say was: BINGO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 4 hours ago, HockeyDad said: Perception IS reality. This isn’t a court trial. Get real. One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. That’s the reality. Life ain’t fair. NO school district has the burden of “proving” a corps guilty or presuming anyone innocent before denying them the use of their space. You can leave that amateur lawyering at the door. Some out of district group who pays zero taxes in my school district wants to use my space? With the baggage the activity is carrying today? I’m surprised corps aren’t having a much harder time securing housing. i heart you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 2 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: Until you get off the “perceived as guilty” kick you are not going to get it. The school boards are not judging individual corps guilt or innocence. The boards are determining if it is worth the risk to allow them to use the facilities. And it is not the responsibility of the board to go digging into details about the individual corps. Quite frankly the boards have more important things to do with their time. So the board finds out there is a problem within DCI. Not the boards job to check or decide how the individual corps fits into that. So with the limited time the board has they see a problem within DCI and a corps connected to a group under a cloud. Board did not decide Corps is guilty, just not worth the risk given the DCI cloud yes. The board has zero responsibility to dig any deeper for "facts". The board can just say "NO", and that's it. Around here, some created new rules/reasons to back up their saying "No". If it's not affecting the schools they're charged to run, a drum corps staying and facts or no facts means not a #### thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said: yes. The board has zero responsibility to dig any deeper for "facts". The board can just say "NO", and that's it. Around here, some created new rules/reasons to back up their saying "No". If it's not affecting the schools they're charged to run, a drum corps staying and facts or no facts means not a #### thing And don’t forget the “our of district non tax paying” bit that HD brought up. 🙄 I live in Jeff’s old school district and taxes vs school budget is the usual hot button.... and this is a highly rated district Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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