Stu Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Until you get off the “perceived as guilty” kick you are not going to get it. The school boards are not judging individual corps guilt or innocence. The boards are determining if it is worth the risk to allow them to use the facilities. And it is not the responsibility of the board to go digging into details about the individual corps. Quite frankly the boards have more important things to do with their time. So the board finds out there is a problem within DCI. Not the boards job to check or decide how the individual corps fits into that. So with the limited time the board has they see a problem within DCI and a corps connected to a group under a cloud. Board did not decide Corps is guilty, just not worth the risk given the DCI cloud The post you have replied to was a specific response by me to the claim by HockeyDad that Perception Is Reality. Nevertheless, when doing risk assesment, percieved possible guilt does enter heavily on the final decision. And it does lead to gross generalization and stereotyping that everyone in a particular group is guilty until proven innocent. Edited April 8, 2019 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Stu said: The post you have replied to was a specific response by me to the claim by HockeyDad that Perception Is Reality. Nevertheless, when doing risk assesment, percieved possible guilt does enter heavily on the final decision. However if the actual reality of innocence is known, that eronous perception goes away. Ok now I get the first part.... But in a perfect world school boards would have the time to study all of that for every group that requests their facilities. They don’t have the time so if they err it is on the side of safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, garfield said: You are making the EXACT case for why the DCI executive office must be solely responsible for the optics of the general activity instead of the individual corps having that responsibility. It wasn't always that way, but it is now and it represents a growing understanding among the past leadership that, despite some opinions to the contrary, there are some functions that are not directly in DCI/Exec's wheelhouse specifically according to the Exec's duties as enumerated in the By-Laws, but that are better to be run centrally non-the-less. So, that's a good thing, right? Worthy of public press, right? So how, exactly, does DCI proclaim that structural change to neophytes or the only-casually-interested in a way that is concise and understandable as positive change? Curious... If I had a guess to help I’d offer it. But I’d say good optics/PR need to be from both individual corps and DCI. Just trying to present that imo the school boards are not going so deep they are determining guilt or innocence. Edited April 8, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 2 hours ago, HockeyDad said: Perception IS reality. This isn’t a court trial. Get real. One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. That’s the reality. Life ain’t fair. NO school district has the burden of “proving” a corps guilty or presuming anyone innocent before denying them the use of their space. You can leave that amateur lawyering at the door. Some out of district group who pays zero taxes in my school district wants to use my space? With the baggage the activity is carrying today? I’m surprised corps aren’t having a much harder time securing housing. There is, however, little reason to suspect that a second-hand rumor brought to the school board by an interested party will trump the input of a music director at the school who's requesting the housing. IMO, it is much easier and effective for a band director to make the request instead of DCI calling out of the blue to the school. DCI wants all of its 100+ shows run by DCI instead of unaffiliated Tour Event Partners (TEP) because the gate, after the DCI contract, goes to the hosting school. DCI wants that money, too, but they ignore or discount the impact of having a local band director advocating for the activity and making housing arrangements in DCI's name. Yes, the drum corps TEP used to have, at one time, a symbiotic relationship with local band directors, but less so or not at all now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, garfield said: There is, however, little reason to suspect that a second-hand rumor brought to the school board by an interested party will trump the input of a music director at the school who's requesting the housing. IMO, it is much easier and effective for a band director to make the request instead of DCI calling out of the blue to the school. DCI wants all of its 100+ shows run by DCI instead of unaffiliated Tour Event Partners (TEP) because the gate, after the DCI contract, goes to the hosting school. DCI wants that money, too, but they ignore or discount the impact of having a local band director advocating for the activity and making housing arrangements in DCI's name. Yes, the drum corps TEP used to have, at one time, a symbiotic relationship with local band directors, but less so or not at all now. This is a much better argument- that the school’s music director’s input holds a lot of sway in decision making whether to house a corps. Versus some imagined right to due process that a corps should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, garfield said: There is, however, little reason to suspect that a second-hand rumor brought to the school board by an interested party will trump the input of a music director at the school who's requesting the housing Trump card in districts around here are taxpayers/voters (and a local rag weekly paper in at least one case) who raise hades at meetings and election time. If board members see this as something that can bite em in the butt in the future, I’d bet on no housing regardless of respect band director might hold. Edited April 8, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 30 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Ok now I get the first part.... But in a perfect world school boards would have the time to study all of that for every group that requests their facilities. They don’t have the time so if they err it is on the side of safety. Err on the side of safety? Okay, let's see if you are consistent. Since there has been a pedophile problem in one vein of a church, all churches should be scrutinized as possibly harboring child sex offenders and thus denied access to public facilities until they are proven innocent because the risk is there, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, HockeyDad said: This is a much better argument- that the school’s music director’s input holds a lot of sway in decision making whether to house a corps. Versus some imagined right to due process that a corps should have. The whole "...right to..." connotation reminds me too much of the institutional arrogance that seems to emanate from many musicians. "We make music! You should LOVE us just because!" This attitude changes quickly, obviously, when one has to pay rent or, worse yet, rent housing for a traveling circus of band geeks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: Shake my head at applying presumption of innocence and other trial ideas towards this. not a trial folks, it’s a school deciding if a group should be allowed to use the schools facilities. The board/admins have to decide if the group is worth the risk. Period.... " The schools " are not the paragon of good virtue with these decisions either, lets face it " The schools " themselves have their own public image problems nationally at the moment. Most of these predators were hired and long safe harbored in the Educational Field. Sent from system to system as the apparent result of subpar and ineffective reporting mechanisms, or just levels of forgiveness with our nation's kids that is just appalling. This unacceptable level of tolerance for high risk individuals around our Nation's kids is probably just as worse, if not far worse, than among the DCI Corps, imo. So I really don't see the School Boards here as much of a threat to the DCI Corps, as they apparently have their hands full already with these bad characters ALREADY in their classrooms throughout the school year, and on their school grounds that they are confronted with. So Summer traveling Drum Corps that use their school grounds for maybe only 24-48 hours in the summer with the schools closed are likely far down their priority list when it comes to providing safety for the students that are on their school grounds. Edited April 8, 2019 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Stu said: Err on the side of safety? Okay, let's see if you are consistent. Since there has been a pedophile problem in one vein of a church, all churches should be scrutinized as possibly harboring child sex offenders and thus denied access to public facilities until they are proven innocent because the risk is there, correct? Again you are on the guilt and innocence bit.... What difference does it make how I feel when I am giving the schools side of it. My opinion does not count in that. Edited April 8, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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