Time to Say Goodbye, after 15 years

[JimF-LowBari]

10 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

And interesting that since the electronics "Pandora's Box" was opened, the Bluecoats have arguably been the corps that have utilized electronics at a better, more professional level than various other corps... including the corps whose director at the time was leading the push for electronics to be approved.

Not totally surprising, actually. A friend with ties to the Bluecoats organization has told me that once electronics was approved, the 'Coats figured, hey....if we have to live with this stuff to be competitive, let's do it better than anyone. And IMO, they pretty much have.

Have no idea what happened behind the scenes but can picture Larry saying “well the letter didn’t work, what are we going to do now”. IMO no wasting time, start working with the changes

[Fran Haring]

2 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Have no idea what happened behind the scenes but can picture Larry saying “well the letter didn’t work, what are we going to do now”. IMO no wasting time, start working with the changes

Exactly.

And you also guessed who my friend is.   Not too difficult.  LOL.

[JimF-LowBari]

12 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

Exactly.

And you also guessed who my friend is.   Not too difficult.  LOL.

And all I get is a “Hi Jimmy”.... 😄

[Jeff Ream]

4 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Actions speak louder than words.  And DCI actions (lack thereof) ignored the protests of fans.

and as a co author of the petition, and seeing the lack of action...and the drop and subsequent rise in attendace, i think we know how it worked out. and to be honest, a good chunk of those opposed have come around and at worst begrudgingly accept it. i mean if they keep paying to see it, then it can't be a deal breaker

[Jeff Ream]

4 hours ago, Fran Haring said:

And interesting that since the electronics "Pandora's Box" was opened, the Bluecoats have arguably been the corps that has utilized electronics at a better, more professional level than various other corps... including the corps whose director at the time was leading the push for electronics to be approved.

Not totally surprising, actually. A friend with ties to the Bluecoats organization has told me that once electronics was approved, the 'Coats figured, hey....if we have to live with this stuff to be competitive, let's do it better than anyone. And IMO, they pretty much have.

And yes, apparently you do "have to live with this stuff" to remain competitive, despite the counter-argument that "no one says you have to add anything."  Same argument was used with any-key instrumentation... "you can stay in G if you choose"... blah, blah, blah.  Sure... stay in G if you want to drop from the top 12 to struggling to make semifinals.  LOL.

if DCI hadn't said " you don't have to....." so ,uch less #####ing because it did make them look like hypocrites

[garfield]

16 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

if DCI hadn't said " you don't have to....." so ,uch less #####ing because it did make them look like hypocrites

Wow, not your normal eloquent self - convoluted statement.  But I think you're saying what I've been saying multiple ways - judging makes the difference.  You can be all-G but your scores will not reflect the quality.  In the end it's so VERY subjective - no matter how they tweak the judging sheets - but if EVERYONE knows that such a show wouldn't score well today nobody would risk an all-G show or a propless show or -gasp!- a show without A&E.  There's a reason that fans claim that BD's consistency comes from designing to the sheets - do they talk to the judges more?  Are they getting special information that others aren't?  WHY are the judges favoring one design over another and why are most corps so hesitant to NOT design to the cookie-cutter we have today?

These same judges also judge indoor and teach themselves.  THAT's what they're rewarding.

"You don't have to..." was a designed part of the plan to not order the other corps and to not look like hypocrites.  As I believe judging was as well.  Fans can scream to go backwards but drum corps never will so long as judging is yawning and saying "What next to reward?".  Darn-near three-ring circus last year seemed to twitch their switches.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by garfield

[Jeff Ream]

11 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Have no idea what happened behind the scenes but can picture Larry saying “well the letter didn’t work, what are we going to do now”. IMO no wasting time, start working with the changes

well they sold a shirt saying no to amplification

[Jeff Ream]

17 hours ago, garfield said:

Wow, not your normal eloquent self - convoluted statement.  But I think you're saying what I've been saying multiple ways - judging makes the difference.  You can be all-G but your scores will not reflect the quality.  In the end it's so VERY subjective - no matter how they tweak the judging sheets - but if EVERYONE knows that such a show wouldn't score well today nobody would risk an all-G show or a propless show or -gasp!- a show without A&E.  There's a reason that fans claim that BD's consistency comes from designing to the sheets - do they talk to the judges more?  Are they getting special information that others aren't?  WHY are the judges favoring one design over another and why are most corps so hesitant to design to the cookie-cutter we have today?

These same judges also judge indoor and teach themselves.  THAT's what they're rewarding.

"You don't have to..." was a designed part of the plan to not order the other corps and to not look like hypocrites.  As I believe judging was as well.  Fans can scream to go backwards but drum corps never will so long as judging is yawning and saying "What next to reward?".  Darn-near three-ring circus last year seemed to twitch their switches.

 

 

judges follow what their employers tell them to do. the "you don't have to" stuff was merely lip service to appease #####y fans on DCP ( and at that time, Soundmachine and still RAMD). Trust me the judging coordinators hear about it when a judge says something dumb, so if people complained about it, and DCI didn't do anything, then DCI condoned it.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Jeff Ream

[N.E. Brigand]

On 11/1/2019 at 6:38 PM, N.E. Brigand said:

On the other hand, think of the big string quartet competition that happens every other year up in Banff. If you're a string quartet aficionado, and you learn that this year the competition is for quartets of any instrumentation, you know that means you'll be hearing less string quartet music.

My objection to woodwinds in drum corps is that it would become a de facto "required" element, just like nearly every other supposedly optional element that's been added.

Right now we get lots more brass playing in drum corps than we do in marching band. Add woodwinds and there would be less.

That said, sometimes you get a refreshing change of pace. On Saturday in at the Bands of America super regional competition in San Antonio, two weeks before Grand Nationals, the Ronald Reagan band won, with the highest score ever outside of Grand Nationals (that score, 97.3, would be enough to win at some Grand Nationals, I believe), and they did it without any props.

And if you've seen a BOA competition, you know that props, frequently large and extensive, are used by so many bands that they seem almost to be a requirement.

(Reagan also won despite going on seventh from the end: BOA semi-randomizes finalist order.)

So maybe after DCI decides to allow woodwinds, as a lot of people here seem to be expecting, there will be the occasional corps, or band, or whatever they call themselves, that chooses not to use those instruments -- and maybe they'll succeed.

[garfield]

4 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

That said, sometimes you get a refreshing change of pace. On Saturday in at the Bands of America super regional competition in San Antonio, two weeks before Grand Nationals, the Ronald Reagan band won, with the highest score ever outside of Grand Nationals (that score, 97.3, would be enough to win at some Grand Nationals, I believe), and they did it without any props.

And if you've seen a BOA competition, you know that props, frequently large and extensive, are used by so many bands that they seem almost to be a requirement.

(Reagan also won despite going on seventh from the end: BOA semi-randomizes finalist order.)

So maybe after DCI decides to allow woodwinds, as a lot of people here seem to be expecting, there will be the occasional corps, or band, or whatever they call themselves, that chooses not to use those instruments -- and maybe they'll succeed.

Not paying Flo regardless of how much I want to watch.  I'll wait until it hits YT.

But I'm *SO* excited to see a no-props show!  Their 2018 video on YT (sped up) is a real treat even if there was no sound.  Drill-people will be thrilled.  Central Ohio's Grove City HS will be a direct beneficiary should the judges now consistently reward what they ACTUALLY see instead of what they expect to see.

If, or when, the Borgification of drum corps is complete, perhaps those same judges will align the expectations and start to reward Marching Band's Major League regardless of their prop count (and *gasp* A&E??)

Could drum corps' current mid-life crisis and running into BOA/WGI's arms (with sufficient contrition, I'd suspect) actually be the path towards unplugging?  Oh, the irony.

(I'm pretty sure some here will say we're just seeing the last gasp of a dying activity...)