Jeff Ream Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 16 hours ago, KeithHall said: IF 2021 does happen, and I don't think it will.....How can a show sponsor run a show? No contest the previous year and limited fans (if contest does happen). Where will the money come from to run a show, pay corps and all the other things that require money? Maybe going back to an earlier time and do local contests might be the best plan. Smaller stadiums (instead of New Era Field in Buffalo, maybe Jamestown HS stadium). even smaller stadiums....the cost to run a show aint cheap 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 15 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Virtual contests. Impossible, you say? Well, we are already staging a contest online. The battle of fears. In one corner, fear of the virus and its associated lockdown, lodging and liability impacts. In the opposite corner, fear of losing DCI and/or their corps to financial failure or loss of tenuously held relevance/support in the face of consecutive cancelled competition campaigns. Which will win? the one that takes the safety of the corps, the staff, the volunteers and the fans fully into account. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 14 hours ago, Continental said: I really like your idea and I think with the use of app technology and cell phones it is achievable. However, how do you account for rabid squirrels attacking individual members marching outside? Worse yet, say you are a member from the upper west who now has Murder Hornets to deal with - and while doing your GPS drill suddenly have to fend off an attack? What kinds of uniforms would protect from stings from Murder Hornets? I suspect shakos would regain popularity as they at least protect the head until a Murder Hornet discovers a space between head and shako. I hope scenarios like this are accounted for. think of the demand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 See some comments that sound like people think DCI will have full control over what they do. Nope... going to be a lot that DCI and the corps have no part in deciding. Facilities of any type, busing, crowd size (if people feel comfortable to attend and number of people allowed to attend), etc. Not a question of “well DCI should have a tour” or not as lot is not their call. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 17 hours ago, KeithHall said: IF 2021 does happen, and I don't think it will.....How can a show sponsor run a show? No contest the previous year and limited fans (if contest does happen). Where will the money come from to run a show, pay corps and all the other things that require money? Maybe going back to an earlier time and do local contests might be the best plan. Smaller stadiums (instead of New Era Field in Buffalo, maybe Jamestown HS stadium). I’m thinking it depends on the show and sponsor. Any show that relies solely or even primarily on ticket sales, concessions, and raffles will be in trouble. However I know of one show where performance fees, stadium rental, and the police detail are all paid for from revenues of an ad/program book. Ticket sales, raffles, and concessions help the organization award scholarships. While it is not as large a show as some of the shows on tour up to Texas and between San Antonio and Atlanta, the corps sell a huge number of small adult and children’s sizes to grandparents in the stands. I know of one corps that claims all costs for the show are donated prior to the event and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that a second corps I know and love could say the same. As I write this, each year we see fewer small independent shows and small show sponsors that do not have direct affiliation with a corps have been saying for years that DCI would like fewer shows more spread out geographically with more corps. For 2021 they may discover smaller is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 10 hours ago, E3D said: Cixelsyd that was a valiant effort by these kids and young adults that tried to do the virtual march on. But I am in the opinion camp that believes virtual is a waste of time and energy and is in some ways a joke. As a spectator, Zoom corps is painful to watch on several levels, one of which I have already described. However... There is a contention that corps need to do something, anything, to stay active/relevant, keep kids engaged, and/or just keep some money flowing in. If Zoom classes are their only such option, and kids are willing to pay for that experience, then maybe that would be time/effort well spent... if it really becomes a choice between Zoom or doom. Quote As someone has mentioned in another post, we are 7 months away from a season. There is no press releases coming from any of the corps. Also another person who has been ridiculed for their opinion of getting on with a season with fans and judges. IMO, it is still too early to call a code on the 2021 season. Apparently, DCI agrees. As for ridiculing people for any scrap of optimism posted here... well, it is all the rage these days. Come to think of it, rage is a good word for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 On 10/25/2020 at 8:14 PM, Cappybara said: I agree that the corps that are charging potential members right now should be ashamed. A 2021 season is extremely unlikely to happen. While Jim is right that if the kids understand the risks of the season not happening and not getting their money back it may be fine, but I still find it a pretty questionable practice. That depends on what they are charging for. 1. If it is for services already rendered (i.e. an unpaid camp fee from prior to the pandemic that covers meals and housing the corps provided to the attendee), that is a fair charge and it should be paid. 2. If it is for ongoing services being rendered (i.e. some corps are conducting classes via Zoom), that is a fair charge. 3. If it is fees a prospective member paid in advance for the 2020 tour that did not happen, that ought to be refundable*. Some corps are offering guaranteed 2021 spots and payment credit in lieu of that refund, and I am okay with that as long as it is voluntary, and it remains refundable if 2021 tour does not happen. * - I also understand that some 2020 expenses such as design/staffing were already incurred prior to cancellation of the tour, so there may still be some small percentage of 2020 tour fees that are not refundable. Then again, a signed member contract takes precedence over what any of us think is "fair". On 10/27/2020 at 5:30 PM, camel lips said: I agree. What they are doing by charging knowing there is a strong chance there is not a season is right down criminal. Its irresponsible at best. Criminal? Consider that every startup corps takes on members without any guarantees of what their inaugural season will be. Corps applying for DCI field competitive status (open-class) typically have not received approval of their evaluations until May, yet the expectation is that so many prospective members will commit to audition/join/rehearse six months earlier as to satisfy the minimum membership requirement of that evaluation process. Corps adopting an expanded tour have faced that same six-month leap of faith. Every corps commitment involves some degree of risk that it will not happen, for either the member or the corps being unable to follow through. That is why there are contracts. As long as corps are being honest, it is not "criminal" for them to operate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 12 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Consider that every startup corps takes on members without any guarantees of what their inaugural season will be. Corps applying for DCI field competitive status (open-class) typically have not received approval of their evaluations until May, yet the expectation is that so many prospective members will commit to audition/join/rehearse six months earlier as to satisfy the minimum membership requirement of that evaluation process. Corps adopting an expanded tour have faced that same six-month leap of faith. Every corps commitment involves some degree of risk that it will not happen, for either the member or the corps being unable to follow through. That is why there are contracts. As long as corps are being honest, it is not "criminal" for them to operate. I never understood that curiosity of trying to bring a corps on the field without any waranty you will be allowed to compete until the beginning of the summer. How do you sell that to potential members, staff, volunteers? It takes a seasonned and over passionnate director that can take all the pressure on him, not worrying about an eventual decision from DCI. For an outside director/board, this is a "no go" project. It is not about meeting the requirement, it is : even if you meet requirement, you can't say for sure if you are gonna be there and what your season will look like. No business man would ever invest in that kind of project. While I understand the DCI point of view and their difficult position (trying to make sure the members are safe and well taken care of, making sure the product they offer to the spectators and show host is good and relevant, public responsability, etc.), I think they too have to abide by clear rules. Like: you succeed evaluation: we will provide you with this.... this and this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 On 10/28/2020 at 12:08 PM, Cappybara said: Oh my sweet summer child Bless your heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 22 hours ago, Tim K said: I’m thinking it depends on the show and sponsor. Any show that relies solely or even primarily on ticket sales, concessions, and raffles will be in trouble. However I know of one show where performance fees, stadium rental, and the police detail are all paid for from revenues of an ad/program book. Ticket sales, raffles, and concessions help the organization award scholarships. While it is not as large a show as some of the shows on tour up to Texas and between San Antonio and Atlanta, the corps sell a huge number of small adult and children’s sizes to grandparents in the stands. I know of one corps that claims all costs for the show are donated prior to the event and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that a second corps I know and love could say the same. As I write this, each year we see fewer small independent shows and small show sponsors that do not have direct affiliation with a corps have been saying for years that DCI would like fewer shows more spread out geographically with more corps. For 2021 they may discover smaller is better. so who buys a program book if people can't go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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