What are your controversial marching arts opinions?

[CFC1905]

On 7/10/2022 at 2:56 PM, Orwellian Wiress said:

gonna rapid fire this one 
- modern dci (2000s+) > classic dci (70s-90s) 
- played synth in marching band, so obviously i love synth and people need to stop hating on its inclusion. i worked just as hard as the rest of pit, and had just as big of an impact on the show 
- i 💜 artsy show themes 
- i'm a big fangirl of shows with big/impressive props 
- "gimmick shows" (spartacus, downside up, tilt) are my jam 
- blue devils 2011 is my favorite bd show 
- house is not a home is a beautiful song and should be a national anthem or something 
- i don't care if woodwinds get into dci or not because sax parts in high school band SLAP  
- i really liked jagged line 
- i love voices/narration (like bluecoats and blue devils have this year)

I’ve been reading this forum for years, and it was this post that made me decide to create an account. You stated you are a minor, so I will try to be kind. 
 

However, your age and your lack of first hand experience in DCI are clearly guiding these opinions. I don’t think you have a true appreciation for how the activity came to be during its golden years (late 80’s through early 2000’s). It was during this time that drum corps was clearly an activity that was not the same as marching band. What’s happened since then is a takeover by artsy folk who have changed the activity as a whole. Physical and musical demand mean nothing anymore, and it’s easily seen by those of us who marched the hardest shows ever put on the field. I’m telling you from first hand experience that we could have marched ANY of these modern shows LITERALLY without breaking a sweat. 
 

“But change is inevitable and you should embrace it” so you say.  Change is one thing, and drum corps has obviously evolved over time. But for decades, evolution meant increasing demand and pushing the limits. Now the activity has devolved into something that is unrecognizable and watered down. I imagine basketball fans would be upset if the NBA allowed players to punt the ball down court, or if baseball players were allowed to tackle base runners. Sounds absurd, I know. But if you compare DCI of 20 years ago vs today, it’s not a terrible comparison. 
 

To fans who are enjoying seeing DCI become ballet/marching band, I say there is already an activity for you. It’s called BOA. Many of us marched and taught in a DCI that was a higher level than other marching groups. It’s disheartening to see the activity become summer high school marching band. 
 

To the young, I would suggest digging into DCI shows that pushed the limit of marching arts. By pushing the limits, I mean ridiculous drill and insane music books. You will see that the focus has clearly moved from marching and music to costumes and props. Not what DCI was meant to be at all. If you don’t believe me, watch the insanity of shows like Cavaliers 2001/SCV 99/Cadets 2000. Watch Madison Scouts 88/99 or SCV 88 and see the PASSION of the crowds. People literally crying in the stands, or “throwing babies” as we used to call it. THAT is the essence of Drum Corps. 
 

Rant off. Flame away. 

[jjeffeory]

15 minutes ago, CFC1905 said:

I’ve been reading this forum for years, and it was this post that made me decide to create an account. You stated you are a minor, so I will try to be kind. 
 

However, your age and your lack of first hand experience in DCI are clearly guiding these opinions. I don’t think you have a true appreciation for how the activity came to be during its golden years (late 80’s through early 2000’s). It was during this time that drum corps was clearly an activity that was not the same as marching band. What’s happened since then is a takeover by artsy folk who have changed the activity as a whole. Physical and musical demand mean nothing anymore, and it’s easily seen by those of us who marched the hardest shows ever put on the field. I’m telling you from first hand experience that we could have marched ANY of these modern shows LITERALLY without breaking a sweat. 
 

“But change is inevitable and you should embrace it” so you say.  Change is one thing, and drum corps has obviously evolved over time. But for decades, evolution meant increasing demand and pushing the limits. Now the activity has devolved into something that is unrecognizable and watered down. I imagine basketball fans would be upset if the NBA allowed players to punt the ball down court, or if baseball players were allowed to tackle base runners. Sounds absurd, I know. But if you compare DCI of 20 years ago vs today, it’s not a terrible comparison. 
 

To fans who are enjoying seeing DCI become ballet/marching band, I say there is already an activity for you. It’s called BOA. Many of us marched and taught in a DCI that was a higher level than other marching groups. It’s disheartening to see the activity become summer high school marching band. 
 

To the young, I would suggest digging into DCI shows that pushed the limit of marching arts. By pushing the limits, I mean ridiculous drill and insane music books. You will see that the focus has clearly moved from marching and music to costumes and props. Not what DCI was meant to be at all. If you don’t believe me, watch the insanity of shows like Cavaliers 2001/SCV 99/Cadets 2000. Watch Madison Scouts 88/99 or SCV 88 and see the PASSION of the crowds. People literally crying in the stands, or “throwing babies” as we used to call it. THAT is the essence of Drum Corps. 
 

Rant off. Flame away. 

 

I agree with much of what you've said.

I believe it is more physically difficult and requires more endurance to march and play a 10+ minute show than it does to do 5 things in that same amount of time.

Today shows are designed to use different muscle groups. March and play for a couple minutes, then switch to using a different set of muscle groups. Let the pit play much of the meat of the show.

In the past, it was the brass who carried the musical meat of the show, with the pit layered in to augment, be featured, and complement. It seems to me that it is now substantially reversed.

The drill today is a "highlight" reel.  Do some difficult marching, shape one's legs in whatever odd direction. Put the instrument down and jazz run, do a back flip, or whatever.  Back in the day, when we weren't playing we'd be uniformly be in carriage position, and that would require a certain amount of endurance that is more than having the horn down by one's side.

It's very smart to be able to share the workload between different muscle groups because that's less difficult.

I'm sure the guards immensely more flexible in the different things they do these day, and I will not downplay what they do, so I'll stick with what "I" know. 

Luckily, I'm still interested in DCI enough to be attending 6 shows this year, plus DCA prelims and finals, but it gets a little more difficult to find the magic each year.

 

...and I'm planning on marching an all-age show next year, so I'll have an even better idea of what it's like to perform a modern show compared to an old show.

 

[FTNK]

If drum corps exists in 10-15 years, it will be impossible to tour in the South/Texas because of climate change

[FTNK]

DCI percussion has no soul or groove

Brass runs aren’t entertainment

[frachel]

My "controversial" opinions

• Aside from the Colt's "radio play" show, narration has not made a single show "better". Usually it makes it worse, and at best "at least it doesn't make it worse".
• Singing hasn't made any show better (cue the Wicked Games replies.. it didn't make it worse, but you'd probably love it just as much if it were a lush horn arrangement and no singer from the beginning).
• "It's in the source material" is not a valid argument to the above two items.
• 10+ mellophones sustaining a concert Bb is not something that deserves a standing-O and crazy cheering.
• DCI is only marginally educational when it comes to music (brass only). Hundreds upon hundreds of hours perfecting what, 5 minutes of playing (that's about all they play nowadays) - "blats" once you reach your dot, loud chords, and the occasional Arban exercise doesn't seem very educational to me (plenty of other great benefits of the activity, don't get me wrong.. I just don't think its doing much for music education.)
• Rick definitely played the last 9 notes of Garfield '87
• I think with the overall talent level of the members and the instructors, a corps like BD or Crown would still be top in Brass if they were given a set of *new* 3-valve G instruments to use (someone mentioned earlier that no way a show with bugles could do well again, I disagree, making this a controversial opinion 🙂 )

Edited July 14, 2022 by frachel

[Orwellian Wiress]

Here we go again. Apparently I'm not a true fan because I love DCI differently and because I'm young🙄 Because a non-DCI fan would totally buy tickets to watch a show, make an account to communicate with others who are into it, and make fan works about it

Might as well take a Mickey Mouse toy from a baby and tell them that they're not a real Disney fan because they weren't around for the best era of Disney😂

[Poppycock]

1 hour ago, CFC1905 said:

Rant off. Flame away. 

Thank you for joining DCP and providing some wonderful insight. 

IMO Guard is the only section in drum corps that hasn’t been watered down. 

Jim Ott once said to me that if he got paid by the hour for teaching every 14 year old in his brass lines how to read music and play a horn, he would be a millionaire. He went on to say he had hobby player soloist who could fill up any stadium without being amplified. 

Unfortunately those days have since gone by, and the activity has had to adapt and change to the available students which come with both the training, means and resources to make the cut. But I’m not convinced the activity is in a better place now. 

The productions are not as entertaining, captivating, and there’s nothing that makes the activity special anymore. The students are performing what they have been given, and the quality is a reflection of what they’re being taught. So I don’t blame the members for the mess their designers made. 

Being a legacy fan, I come away from most performances with the mindset that if I never see that again I won’t feel like I missed anything. 

[jjeffeory]

18 minutes ago, frachel said:

My "controversial" opinions

• Aside from the Colt's "radio play" show, narration has not made a single show "better". Usually it makes it worse, and at best "at least it doesn't make it worse".
• Singing hasn't made any show better (cue the Wicked Games replies.. it didn't make it worse, but you'd probably love it just as much if it were a lush horn arrangement and no singer from the beginning).
• "It's in the source material" is not a valid argument to the above two items.
• 10+ mellophones sustaining a concert Bb is not something that deserves a standing-O and crazy cheering.
• DCI is only marginally educational when it comes to music (brass only). Hundreds upon hundreds of hours perfecting what, 5 minutes of playing (that's about all they play nowadays) - "blats" once you reach your dot, loud chords, and the occasional Arban exercise doesn't seem very educational to me (plenty of other great benefits of the activity, don't get me wrong.. I just don't think its doing much for music education.)
• Rick definitely played the last 9 notes of Garfield '87
• I think with the overall talent level of the members and the instructors, a corps like BD or Crown would still be top in Brass if they were given a set of *new* 3-valve G instruments to use (someone mentioned earlier that no way a show with bugles could do well again, I disagree, making this a controversial opinion 🙂 )

Bluecoats Session 44 in 2018 and Mandarin's current years shows are the exception to the singing sucks in drumcorps.

We sang back in the 80s and 90s too, but it was the whole corps and wasn't mic'd.

Blue Devils '84 or '85

Freelancers '85

Cavaliers '90

Cadets '84

So, the difference between the 80s/ 90s and the more recent shows is that back in the day the whole corps sang, today they're featured performers, AND today the singing goes on for significant portions of the show.  Back in the day, the singing was for brief periods...

[jjeffeory]

3 minutes ago, Orwellian Wiress said:

Here we go again. Apparently I'm not a true fan because I love DCI differently and because I'm young🙄 Because a non-DCI fan would totally buy tickets to watch a show, make an account to communicate with others who are into it, and make fan works about it

Might as well take a Mickey Mouse toy from a baby and tell them that they're not a real Disney fan because they weren't around for the best era of Disney😂

Please remember that this particular thread is for those "controversial" comments. No worries.

We still got the keytar this year!

[saxfreq1128]

I think the controversy thread is getting confused for the annual same-old complaint thread… This is just the same stuff you guys say every day! Surely someone’s got a truly sacrilegious take that can unite us all against them?