The whistleblowers and survivors of abuse in this industry are tired...

[Jeff Ream]

20 hours ago, BigW said:

There's a lot of pain when your corps folds. I know this personally. But my anger is directed at those individuals who committed the malfeasance that killed it. And, the enabling that went on. My Mom asked me why it was all happening, and I told her, "People were willing to go along and ignore all of the red flags because the corps was gunning for a championship and didn't care about the long-term future of the organization." On that tangent, What Keith discussed and what Brian Tuma discussed on another thread as well as SG recently:

 

I've given a lot of thought about this. It's definitely the culture that exists and has existed. The activity is very result and win driven. Why are some of these people on board? They're perceived to get things done and that they're effective staff members, and there's an attitude with some people that to make an Omelet, well, a few eggs are broken, and well, those broken eggs aren't really corps material. There's also a very in house Good ole Boys' network in place. "Oh, X has a problem, well we can keep X under control here and they're great staff people, we'll give them another chance with our corps. We can keep an eye on them." Why? they figure they can win with this individual on staff or as a performer, just keep a lid on it.

People who turtle up about the dark secrets or shun those who speak up for fear it'll wreck their corps are playing into the hands of the abusers and enabling them. It's one of the tools of their trade. "Don't say anything or you'll be blamed when the corps gets sued and goes under." To me, that's evil incarnate. One can't knuckle under to that mindset. 

 

Lord, I've got my dander up. And everything in the second paragraph has happened somewhere. Some of it, I've seen personally. You want to turn your back from it, shame on you. This (insert colorful noun here) has to stop.

quick point of order from someone who was there.....the red flags were not actually very apparent until after said championship. I too miss my corps, and was there for the resurgence. but many decisions and actions made AFTER the championship are what led to the fall of 97, and pure stupidity by those who took over mismanaged the last years.

 

I love you man, but you weren't there. I was, and you know the busybody I am, i asked a ton  of questions and talked to a lot of people. A lot of us were fooled but the red flags didn't start appearing until the winter of 97. Come August well....they were full blown full field tarps.

[BigW]

2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

quick point of order from someone who was there.....the red flags were not actually very apparent until after said championship. I too miss my corps, and was there for the resurgence. but many decisions and actions made AFTER the championship are what led to the fall of 97, and pure stupidity by those who took over mismanaged the last years.

 

I love you man, but you weren't there. I was, and you know the busybody I am, i asked a ton  of questions and talked to a lot of people. A lot of us were fooled but the red flags didn't start appearing until the winter of 97. Come August well....they were full blown full field tarps.

Jeff, there were things I knew that happened before that. The big Red Flag was when the Business Manager passed away suddenly and the Director took the role of both Director and Business Manager by convincing people that's fine. and getting voted in. Right there's a huge Red Flag. Loss of Checks and Balances in management. That alone should have been a concern from everyone, and it wasn't. Those are two separate positions for good reasons, and it should have been done by two different individuals in spite of the sudden emergency situation. Some responsible individual should have been found. Bad things usually happen when one person is given too much control and there's no one there to check them. No, I wasn't there. I ended up doing other things with DCA. And if I was there at that point, I would have voiced very serious concerns about that alone and been shot down in flames. Likely been laughed out of the room. I look back when I made an approach about coming back in 1992 and got shot down. I think it was because I was thought of by the certain person who shot me down as someone who was going to ask too many questions about too many things. 

 

There were other things I was privy too through contacts where things were shady and questionable before the Championship. It was why Mom had her questions. It's why that contact I had got the heck out of there before things got really bad and made sure the books on their end were tight. You can figure out who. Yes, the house got cleaned after 1the championship- but the damage was done in many ways before it, and there were enough clues there that even someone like me was concerned. Many folks were kind of oblivious or maybe they might not have wanted to look closer? There was a Championship to win, and if this stuff got dug up, it would have been a distraction. Folks wouldn't have been happy. As it was, folks were unhappy in many aspects. Was there an annual corps meeting some time around March where the corps' expenses were explained and itemized and how the income was raised and what the corps monetary balance was at that time after the Business Manager died? Just asking. That was done for 5 of the six seasons I was there, the Sixth was that whole insane six-week effort, and that really doesn't count. There's another red flag if the combination Director/Business Manager at that time didn't sit down and take the time to seriously discuss this with the membership like it used to be done. If that was done, all well and good, but I'm seriously asking you. Somehow, given who was the responsible person to lay out the accounting to the membership, I'm betting the answer is "no" and the excuse would have been that it wasted valuable rehearsal time, just trust me that everything is okay. Don't worry about where the jackets that were pre-paid for are, or the Rings. There's another red flag. Jeff- there were a lot of things that hard questions should have been asked about and got deflected, or folks were scared to go there.

 

Sometimes, when one is standing back from a distance and observing neutrally, maybe they're seeing more than someone that's right there in front of it about some of those things.

[BigW]

Jeff, I couldn't sleep after I realized there was yet another Red Flag I was aware of that you wouldn't have been aware of for very good reasons. I've kept it to myself for 30 years and have only discussed it a couple of days ago with someone else. Since this thread involves abuse- That contact person within the corps that we both know that I mentioned? Well, someone took that individual where there were no witnesses during a rehearsal and struck them. Who, Mom and I don't know, we just know the individual was struck and was afraid to say who it was. 30 years is a long time, but I'm thinking that was when Mom hit me with the question as to what in Hades was happening there.  Mom and I don't know who it was. And whomever it was should be thankful I don't know. *sigh*

 

There was also the joint Bingo with the Fire Department where it was decided by the Management that it wasn't worth it. A loss of easy and steady income at the time. There's another Red Flag I remember.

 

A lot of times, I know more about many things that I let on, Jeff. I know to many I might come across as a total rube and a goof, but I figure I'm better off underestimated.

 

I know we agree on one thing, Jeff, and I believe everyone on this thread agrees:

We want the experience to be far, far better for young people who want to be challenged hard in this activity. It's an intense crucible where one finds out a lot about themselves. Without the discipline I learned and kept with me, I prolly would have given up in the hospital two Augusts ago. But I know I was determined and disciplined enough to fight hard from my corps experience.

 

We need transparency and professionalism badly. People need to stop running away from these things and try and bury it. Yeah, it's horribly embarrassing. Being called out and called a "Worthless sack of (insert colorful Noun)" like I was over the PA system at the Syracuse State Fair Grounds Stadium when I was 16 in the middle of a rehearsal was pretty embarrassing, and it still gets whole lots of great ho-ho-hos and chuckles when its brought up.  I just smile and chuckle along, so funny. I overcame it and then some. I was determined to make it in the activity. Some folks might not have overcame that.  The activity needs to learn from this stuff and do better.

 

 

Edited April 19 by BigW

[Mello Dude]

13 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Not to mention Henri Matisse, inspiration of the 2023 Blue Devils program, was to a degree a Nazi collaborator during WW2. 

What, the George Soros of drum corps..wow.

[Terri Schehr]

8 hours ago, Jurassic Lancer said:

Every corps I ever marched with folded decades ago. 

Even my son has two. All the iterations of Southwind are gone and it seems to be forever.  We know what happened to Cap Sound.. big fish eats little fish to survive. 

Edited April 19 by Terri Schehr

[FormerXyloWhiz]

17 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

I'm relieved to read that things improved for the members with GH's removal. I marched with someone who originally got into Cadets but noped out of it bc of the culture you mention... only to end up at what they called worse at Vanguard. Under a caption head who is a Cadets alum no less.

Somethings really are, unfortunately, as simple as "boy grows up watching dad abuse mom, grows up and abuses his partner."  Drum corps is no different.  It takes work to find a different path than the one you were brought up in.  Any time I have been involved in marching education I have been keenly aware and focused on not letting how I was originally taught be how I put things forward.  Those old behavior pathways are always there, worn into the brain, and available to travel if I am not cautious and mindful.

[scheherazadesghost]

31 minutes ago, FormerXyloWhiz said:

Somethings really are, unfortunately, as simple as "boy grows up watching dad abuse mom, grows up and abuses his partner."  Drum corps is no different.  It takes work to find a different path than the one you were brought up in.  Any time I have been involved in marching education I have been keenly aware and focused on not letting how I was originally taught be how I put things forward.  Those old behavior pathways are always there, worn into the brain, and available to travel if I am not cautious and mindful.

Indeed. I learned that all too well recently with the discovery of new info regarding a fellow alum. It rocked me to my core.

Additionally, there is a straight line path from the abuse I endured and my return to academia to learn to be a pedagogue.

Much more to say here but it'll edge this thread closer to closure so I'll keep it to myself. Several of my abusers are still active and beloved in the activity so... ya know... I'm the bad guy.

[BigW]

6 hours ago, FormerXyloWhiz said:

Somethings really are, unfortunately, as simple as "boy grows up watching dad abuse mom, grows up and abuses his partner."  Drum corps is no different.  It takes work to find a different path than the one you were brought up in.  Any time I have been involved in marching education I have been keenly aware and focused on not letting how I was originally taught be how I put things forward.  Those old behavior pathways are always there, worn into the brain, and available to travel if I am not cautious and mindful.

Something I was told at some point in Drum Corps or College that made me stop on a dime:

 

"You teach like you were taught."

 

Read my last post about what was done to me at Syracuse. When I heard that little saying, I was determined NOT to do that. I learned HOW to teach from my brass instructors in corps and my college Wind Ensemble conductors. Some people like my HS band director, what to do and not to do. Some, what NOT to do. Getting a grad degree in Educational Development and Strategies also got me onto strong paths as an educator.  Regarding Xylo's quote, I've seen abuse patterns exhibited by a student in a band I worked with. Ugly and still disturbing 25 years later.

[BigW]

On 9/5/2022 at 5:03 PM, C.Holland said:

   

There's a lovely old saying that "HR is setup to protect the company, not the employee"

 

A lot of these comments bring back memories. Dad was an Industrial Engineer in the steel industry, and he told me that at one time, HR was called "Industrial Relations", and it was about establishing good, positive, and strong relations between Labor and management, and that was how he was taught in college around 1960, and that's how he worked for 33 years.

Then, the term changed and that's when things began to jump the shark. People were no longer people but a resource like a crop to be harvested or scrap steel to be bought to recycle into railroad wheels.

 

Something to think hard about.

[BigW]

Regarding some of the permissiveness of certain things in Cadets culture in the GH era---

 

I'm gonna throw a lifeline and see if someone knows this with more certainty. Around 2006ish a friend and I were discussing Cadets and they shared some videos with me and explained how well the visual package was coordinated into the music. I'm watching and I hear this hollering on the video, not the normal crowd yells like "WE LOVE YOU, JEFF!!" stuff. I'm like, "what was that!?" and I was told it was a Cadets staff member yelling at some performer in the brass. He then resets and tells me to watch the brass. I see someone a bit out of form and after a couple of replays, it's IIRC "OH, GOD, (name of brass player)!!!!!!!!" Thinking it's the 2005 show possibly.

 

If it were me, that instructor wouldn't be back the next season. And had they not been back, I'm sure some other corps would have snapped them right up.