The whistleblowers and survivors of abuse in this industry are tired...

[scheherazadesghost]

13 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

i rarely venture into Reddit anymore...i got called out for being "old" because i said i marched in the 90's while showing support for a survivor.

I lurked for a very very very long time because I know it's a cesspool at its worst. I'm also sort of stuck between generations and won't dive as deeply into say, TikTok because... can I even count the reasons?

I'm sorry to hear about the ageism though. I get it everywhere and it's never okay no matter which age group is coming from or targeted at. :(

[scheherazadesghost]

3 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

5 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

well we know of one case that went to court. we know of some corps that either folded or temporarily inactive

Yup.  Individual accused of rape & other sexual assaults got 2 years probation & a fine.  Corps that had issues was shut down (which DCI was happy to do because they didn’t fit in the current ‘DCI Brand’). 

I'm not sure when, but at some point it will be crucial to differentiate between the types of abuse/rs and survivors we're talking about here. This is important for legal accountability and the healing of those individuals and the drum corps community as a whole.

In my case: medical neglect, harassment/bullying, sexual harassment

Also in my case: I was a trauma survivor before corps, so these abuses prolonged my recovery from previous traumas; and the likelihood of there being more trauma survivors entering corps is high. This is important because (1) this is not the case for all survivors of drum corps abuse which effects how quickly and effectively they can come forward to tell their story and (2) I posit that if corps act in the best interest of the most vulnerable, they'll semi-automatically be protecting the whole herd better.

For other survivors I'm in direct contact with: various combos of what I endured

For other survivors more than 1 degree of separation away from me, but whose stories have anonymously made it to my ears through trusted sources: the above and sexual abuse

I have been in contact with and have supported survivors in the third category, but not from drum corps. Note that I am not a social worker or mental health practitioner, merely a survivor-advocate who has been in-healing since 2004.

The law definitely treats the above categories differently. With some exception, I think they should be treated differently in the industry as well. While my experiences in corps led to extended mental and physical health issues, other alumni who went through drum corps may still see any singular instance of bullying in my case and say "yeah, I saw that too" or "yeah, that happened to me/but I'm ok."

I'm not saying anyone thinks it's okay now, and it's important to acknowledge that many of us tolerated a certain amount of "tough love" that is so deeply tied to corps... and not all of that was bullying/harassment. In my case, it was the relentless combo of treatment that got me. Dogpiling is very real, especially when it comes to corps members that become injured.

Those survivors who endured worse than me AND/OR endured sexual abuse are a whole 'nother ball of wax and should be approached with even more tenderness and willingness to support than what I demand for myself. When it's that bad, it's really really really hard to speak out. If they're like me, it's possible they're frozen behind the mess these kinds of abuse creates in our lives. I fully support those that don't want to come out yet or ever. That's their right.

But if the community is the group left to fix this stuff for future alumni, we have to do better.

[IllianaLancerContra]

12 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

I'm not sure when, but at some point it will be crucial to differentiate between the types of abuse/rs and survivors we're talking about here. This is important for legal accountability and the healing of those individuals and the drum corps community as a whole.

In my case: medical neglect, harassment/bullying, sexual harassment

Also in my case: I was a trauma survivor before corps, so these abuses prolonged my recovery from previous traumas; and the likelihood of there being more trauma survivors entering corps is high. This is important because (1) this is not the case for all survivors of drum corps abuse which effects how quickly and effectively they can come forward to tell their story and (2) I posit that if corps act in the best interest of the most vulnerable, they'll semi-automatically be protecting the whole herd better.

For other survivors I'm in direct contact with: various combos of what I endured

For other survivors more than 1 degree of separation away from me, but whose stories have anonymously made it to my ears through trusted sources: the above and sexual abuse

I have been in contact with and have supported survivors in the third category, but not from drum corps. Note that I am not a social worker or mental health practitioner, merely a survivor-advocate who has been in-healing since 2004.

The law definitely treats the above categories differently. With some exception, I think they should be treated differently in the industry as well. While my experiences in corps led to extended mental and physical health issues, other alumni who went through drum corps may still see any singular instance of bullying in my case and say "yeah, I saw that too" or "yeah, that happened to me/but I'm ok."

I'm not saying anyone thinks it's okay now, and it's important to acknowledge that many of us tolerated a certain amount of "tough love" that is so deeply tied to corps... and not all of that was bullying/harassment. In my case, it was the relentless combo of treatment that got me. Dogpiling is very real, especially when it comes to corps members that become injured.

Those survivors who endured worse than me AND/OR endured sexual abuse are a whole 'nother ball of wax and should be approached with even more tenderness and willingness to support than what I demand for myself. When it's that bad, it's really really really hard to speak out. If they're like me, it's possible they're frozen behind the mess these kinds of abuse creates in our lives. I fully support those that don't want to come out yet or ever. That's their right.

But if the community is the group left to fix this stuff for future alumni, we have to do better.

W/R/T sexual assault (or any kind of assault really) the jurisdiction where it occurs is where it will be investigated & potentially prosecuted.  As Drum Corps travels through the season, any incident would need to be reported almost immediately, before the Corps leaves for the next show site.  
 

For assaults that come ‘out of nowhere’, the victim knows what happened is wrong, and can get Corps leadership & law enforcement involved right away.  
 

More difficult are cases where the victim is groomed; it seems that it sometimes requires time to pass before the victim realizes what happened is wrong & that they (victim) did not (or could not) consent.  In these cases, Corps leadership certainly can act against the offender, but from a law enforcement angle it could well be difficult to prosecute. 

[scheherazadesghost]

1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

W/R/T sexual assault (or any kind of assault really) the jurisdiction where it occurs is where it will be investigated & potentially prosecuted.  As Drum Corps travels through the season, any incident would need to be reported almost immediately, before the Corps leaves for the next show site. 

For assaults that come ‘out of nowhere’, the victim knows what happened is wrong, and can get Corps leadership & law enforcement involved right away. 

More difficult are cases where the victim is groomed; it seems that it sometimes requires time to pass before the victim realizes what happened is wrong & that they (victim) did not (or could not) consent.  In these cases, Corps leadership certainly can act against the offender, but from a law enforcement angle it could well be difficult to prosecute. 

Thank you, yes ILC, in the immediate case they should be handled under meticulously planned procedures and protocols that involve the relevant jurisdiction.

I suppose I mean the internal aftermath, within the group and the larger community (PR, and on platforms,) should be handled differently depending on each case.

Ultimately the complexity and variety of such cases necessitates a robust whistleblowing system that not only safeguards all parties immediately, but protects survivor dignity moving forward. In the case of the Raiders report, the reporter was counter-accused of sexual assault herself. These are the situations corps should prepare for (and not just with lawyers, but with mental health workers and instructors.)

I'm genuinely hoping that the SafeSport training has prepared members better than I was when I entered. If one's eyes are open, they only need one such training to start to change hearts and minds... depending on the quality of the training and the follow through by staff.

[C.Holland]

10 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

The low-hanging fruit. 

That’s what I’m getting at.  Low hanging fruit is a start, but it won’t actually bring significant change. 
 

you want change?  You really gotta find a way to hit the bank account hard.   Once the law is involved, and lawyers show up, and costs are now significant enough to send a group plummeting into debt, and bring the others down as well, things will change.  It requires significant time and money to take on the entire org, but that’s what needs to be done to bring change. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by C.Holland

[Jeff Ream]

11 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

I lurked for a very very very long time because I know it's a cesspool at its worst. I'm also sort of stuck between generations and won't dive as deeply into say, TikTok because... can I even count the reasons?

I'm sorry to hear about the ageism though. I get it everywhere and it's never okay no matter which age group is coming from or targeted at. 😞

trust me...my wife who is nine years younger will gladly vouch i am not the adult in the house. some days i get in trouble more than the 10 year old ( mainly cause i want to be Kylo Ren and she keeps making me be Chewbacca.)

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, C.Holland said:

That’s what I’m getting at.  Low hanging fruit is a start, but it won’t actually bring significant change. 
 

you want change?  You really gotta find a way to hit the bank account hard.   Once the law is involved, and lawyers show up, and costs are now significant enough to send a group plummeting into debt, and bring the others down as well, things will change.  It requires significant time and money to take on the entire org, but that’s what needs to be done to bring change. 

IMO DCI is one lawsuit away from extinction

[scheherazadesghost]

1 hour ago, C.Holland said:

That’s what I’m getting at.  Low hanging fruit is a start, but it won’t actually bring significant change.

you want change?  You really gotta find a way to hit the bank account hard.   Once the law is involved, and lawyers show up, and costs are now significant enough to send a group plummeting into debt, and bring the others down as well, things will change.  It requires significant time and money to take on the entire org, but that’s what needs to be done to bring change. 

Thank you, @C.Holland. I completely agree. Yes.

To be clear: some of us are outside of the statute of limitations... those of us that aren't often have steep hills to climb.

And as usual, I'm hamstringed by the two extremes: either nothing continues to happen OR the industry collapses. I don't think that either extreme outcome needs to be drum corps' fate. And I will fight for survivor reconciliation outside of the formalized legal system for the rest of my life because I believe in the the goodness that can come from the drum corps experience. ... and yet, I still believe that our current legal system has the potential to sap all good intentions from those anyone who engages it.

That said, arbitration is crucial for those survivors who have been harmed in situations by adults who can't manage to accurately assign accountability. I am in full support of those survivors. In all other situations, in which reasonable adults have the capacity to reach solutions for safeguarding young people AND identifying their own culpability/accountability, I firmly support survivors that seek extra-legal reconciliation.

I'm relived and proud to say that, so far,  leadership at SCV has left this door-of-reconciliation open to me... and I will engage them in my own time. What about those survivors, from other corps who endured worse than me, who ultimately have less luck than I did?

Nothing is simple.

To those of you willing to still engage with this topic (either passively or actively): thank you!

[scheherazadesghost]

22 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

trust me...my wife who is nine years younger will gladly vouch i am not the adult in the house. some days i get in trouble more than the 10 year old ( mainly cause i want to be Kylo Ren and she keeps making me be Chewbacca.)

Reamy, you and I probably don't see eye-to-eye on everything... but I feel you here and in many other cases I've seen you speak to on DCP. But ultimately, those of us that are willing to adjust our perspective in a way that allows for the inclusion MORE people in the pageantry arts, not less, are on the winning side.

Also, each of us have some Kylo Ren in us...and also some Chewy. Thank goodness. My own Cavie-mentor spoke often to me about how he associates me with Anakin before he passed... so there's some curious drum corps mythos for you. 🙂

Most of us (that I respect on DCP) agree on the firm lines between abuse and tough love. If anyone else is confused about that, ask an elder here on DCP who's been through it. Most of us will clearly demarcate the difference.

[IllianaLancerContra]

11 hours ago, C.Holland said:

That’s what I’m getting at.  Low hanging fruit is a start, but it won’t actually bring significant change. 
 

you want change?  You really gotta find a way to hit the bank account hard.   Once the law is involved, and lawyers show up, and costs are now significant enough to send a group plummeting into debt, and bring the others down as well, things will change.  It requires significant time and money to take on the entire org, but that’s what needs to be done to bring change. 

There is a saying (attributed to Eisenhower) - If you grab them by the b*lls, their hearts & minds will follow.