Santa Clara Vanguard 2023 Announcement Thread

[jjeffeory]

17 hours ago, C.Holland said:

I will say you can ask 10 instructors and they’ll give you ten slightly different answers.  To me outdoor brass in a field versus indoor in an orchestra or big band is very different.  Your piano is more of a forte, and your forte is 2 ffs.   

the airstream difference of trying to push sound up to a box or fill up a stadium versus trying to blend with 2 people seated within 4 feet of you and fill a room no larger than 100’.
 

To me, your face requires more building for outdoor, if would be called overblowing in indoors, versus you can’t give enough outdoors.  Your face works harder to prevent tone spread whereas in indoor you’re at more manageable levels so there’s less stress on chops, cheeks, and jaw.  You want direction to your sound produced.  

 

after A summer of tour my tone was noticeably different because my face was used to playing 3-4x indoor volume.  It took a couple weeks to get it back from drum corps chops to big band chops. 
 

there is a difference for playing to seats 400’ away versus 75’ or even 20’

So, yes, as we already knew but the person I was answering didn't, there IS a difference between indoor and outdoor technique, and there are different indoor techniques that are all valid, and there are different outdoor techniques that are equally valid depending on the ideology of the person leading the brassline. Gino C lines versus DVD versus BD.  They're different techniques... 

[C.Holland]

2 hours ago, gbass598 said:

Fair enough points. In a world with 75-80 member brass sections it sounds like more of a proponent of using amplification for brass as well instead of criticizing the costs of amplifying front ensemble. However, is the stress on face, jaw, lungs, etc. just conditioning or is it detrimental to the sound and the instrument itself like overplaying on a keyboard?

if you played like that for ten years, especially as your face is developing, it would affect your growth.   It certainly is not ideal for playing like a normal human, in a normal venue, or ensemble.  its strictly a drum corps thing.  Its not to be carried over into the rest of your life. 

[jjeffeory]

15 hours ago, gbass598 said:

Since I'm not a brass player. Is it actually a different playing technique or just a different "style" in arranging that causes the player to approach the music differently? I know concert percussion and front ensemble should ideally be approached with the same technique but they arranging style of how the parts are written are significantly different.

It's hard to answer as there's "technique" which includes embouchure, style of attack with the tongue ( da vers ta or ga), and an emphasis in moving air through the horn, which can be mostly similar between settings, but you have to put more air through the horn outdoors. You have to breathe more outdoors so that you can play AND move. I'd liken this to play with mallets at a higher level.

The arranging isn't a difference, though there is an arranging style that seems to work best for marching bands to give it that "drum corps" sound, but there are different types of arrangements happening outdoors now. Look at the Bluecoats... Their arrangements could, I feel, be found at your local jazz club. It's very much mainstream, yet also drumcorps.

The point is brass instruments are expected to do this without amplification, but the mallets have amplification AND now numbers too.

The old guard said that they could use different grips, heights, and materials to get volume and tone. Then it suddenly became "we need amps so that we can use "concert band" techniques", to now we have 15 million mallets and they add visual to the corps.  It was pretty much the definition of slippery slope, and some groups are now amplifying brass into the mix too. It's just out of control and pretty much changed the sound of the idiom.

Edited December 19, 2022 by jjeffeory

[Bruckner8]

47 minutes ago, C.Holland said:

if you played like that for ten years, especially as your face is developing, it would affect your growth.   It certainly is not ideal for playing like a normal human, in a normal venue, or ensemble.  its strictly a drum corps thing.  Its not to be carried over into the rest of your life. 

I played Bass Bone in a regional orchestra from 1986-1997, after marching with SCV in 1984, and having lessons from the Bass trombonist of the Cleveland Orchestra from 1981-1982. My brass playing approach was no different between lessons, SCV and orchestra. Now, on average, I played louder for more "minutes per day" in drum corps, but I also played louder more "minutes per day" when the circus gigs came to town. I knew it was temporary both times. I respected my teachers. If anything, SCV helped me get better.

Might be different for upper brass, or I'm a dinosaur, who didn't know better, and "just played."

[C.Holland]

40 minutes ago, jjeffeory said:

It's hard to answer as there's "technique" which includes embouchure, style of attack with the tongue ( da vers ta or ga), and an emphasis in moving air through the horn, which can be mostly similar between settings, but you have to put more air through the horn outdoors. You have to breathe more outdoors so that you can play AND move. I'd liken this to play with mallets at a higher level.

The arranging isn't a difference, though there is an arranging style that seems to work best for marching bands to give it that "drum corps" sound, but there are different types of arrangements happening outdoors now. Look at the Bluecoats... Their arrangements could, I feel, be found at your local jazz club. It's very much mainstream, yet also drumcorps.

The point is brass instruments are expected to do this without amplification, but the mallets have amplification AND now numbers too.

The old guard said that they could use different grips, heights, and materials to get volume and tone. Then it suddenly became "we need amps so that we can use "concert band" techniques", to now we have 15 million mallets and they add visual to the corps.  It was pretty much the definition of slippery slope, and some groups are now amplifying brass into the mix too. It's just out of control and pretty much changed the sound of the idiom.

I think there's tricks each arranger has to maximize certain cords for outdoor punch.  We've heard these progressions a millions times over.  Plus some horns have better output in certain partials.  So you try to not put too many notes in certain areas on the horns.  Bari's for example have a great sweet spot just above the staff.  One you get below a certain point its all mush and gets covered up by the rest of the ensemble. 
 

[C.Holland]

14 minutes ago, Bruckner8 said:

I played Bass Bone in a regional orchestra from 1986-1997, after marching with SCV in 1984, and having lessons from the Bass trombonist of the Cleveland Orchestra from 1981-1982. My brass playing approach was no different between lessons, SCV and orchestra. Now, on average, I played louder for more "minutes per day" in drum corps, but I also played louder more "minutes per day" when the circus gigs came to town. I knew it was temporary both times. I respected my teachers. If anything, SCV helped me get better.

Might be different for upper brass, or I'm a dinosaur, who didn't know better, and "just played."

I was the last of the G bugle era.  And I'm a trombone for funk, blues, jazz, etc. Lead trombone in a big band setting.  I wouldnt play in any of these groups like I played in dci.  it wouldnt fit the group sound. 

[jjeffeory]

33 minutes ago, C.Holland said:

I was the last of the G bugle era.  And I'm a trombone for funk, blues, jazz, etc. Lead trombone in a big band setting.  I wouldnt play in any of these groups like I played in dci.  it wouldnt fit the group sound. 

At least you guys seem to have gotten trombonists.

I was a euph major at OSU and was taught by the tubist for the Columbus Symphony Orchestra and a trombonist for the CSO.  ... I was constantly asked to change technique away from breathe dah in the winter....

[totaleefree]

I know this will be controversial, but I don't think brass technique was a major factor in SCV opting not to march this summer.   Looking at this it appears that SCV Bingo is a somewhat lucrative venture making maybe a million a year, however sending 2 corps to Indy required maybe 2 million a year.  Which makes you say if they finances wern't quite there why in the world did they opt to send 2 corps to Indy last year ?  But it seems that the Bingo is still going making money and should easily repay debt and should be able to field an more Austerity minded corps shortly.

    I know they bought a new food truck in 18 I believe but I think it was paid for with donations and not by picking up debt. But with all that money into a food truck they need to get back out and use it soon.  

 

I have been an SCV fan for a long time and I had alwys looked to them as an example in performance and corps admin. Usually over the summer the volunteers from the corps usually have opportunities to talk with each other in parking lots and you can get a general feel of what is going on within the corps. I think that this year (22) we still had covid issues so I didn't spend as much time talking with other corps and I was caught by surprise hearing about  SCVs troubles.   I hope to see them back on the field by 2024

     

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, totaleefree said:

I know this will be controversial, but I don't think brass technique was a major factor in SCV opting not to march this summer.   Looking at this it appears that SCV Bingo is a somewhat lucrative venture making maybe a million a year, however sending 2 corps to Indy required maybe 2 million a year.  Which makes you say if they finances wern't quite there why in the world did they opt to send 2 corps to Indy last year ?  But it seems that the Bingo is still going making money and should easily repay debt and should be able to field an more Austerity minded corps shortly.

    I know they bought a new food truck in 18 I believe but I think it was paid for with donations and not by picking up debt. But with all that money into a food truck they need to get back out and use it soon.  

 

I have been an SCV fan for a long time and I had alwys looked to them as an example in performance and corps admin. Usually over the summer the volunteers from the corps usually have opportunities to talk with each other in parking lots and you can get a general feel of what is going on within the corps. I think that this year (22) we still had covid issues so I didn't spend as much time talking with other corps and I was caught by surprise hearing about  SCVs troubles.   I hope to see them back on the field by 2024

     

Who said brass technique had anything to do with it?

[C.Holland]

On 12/19/2022 at 3:35 PM, jjeffeory said:

At least you guys seem to have gotten trombonists.

I was a euph major at OSU and was taught by the tubist for the Columbus Symphony Orchestra and a trombonist for the CSO.  ... I was constantly asked to change technique away from breathe dah in the winter....

My tone was a bit Eff’d when I came back from tour. So whatever we did in summer after the first summer season, I never carried into normal life.