Pulling the plug

[DudleytheWest]

36 minutes ago, LabMaster said:

Just so you know. Boston is carrying zero debt.  In fact Boston is running in the black.  This is after many years of planning ahead, building a solid financial foundation and careful spending.  Get you facts straight and don’t make assumptions. Corps debt is no DVI org driven.  Corps debts are all of their own making.  Poor fiscal management at individual corps level gets corps in the financial conditions they find themselves in.  NO ONE dictates what a corps spends. The corps decides what and how their money is spent. If you limit the revenue streams, you finances will dwindle and if you revenue is badly managed or reliant on single source (like Bingo) you find yourselves in the position SCV is in.

Running in the black and carrying debt are two completely different things. Yes, according to the 990s (through 2021) they are running in the black from a Net Income perspective, slightly, year over year (save 2020), but according to those 990s, they are carrying debt. 2021 showed over $2.2M in debt. The 990s from 2015 - 2022 show debts of around $2M each year. Maybe they got rid of that debt in one year, but I'm not sure how given there's a track record of them having over $1M since 2014 and $2.2M is a massive debt to erase in such a short time. Most corps carry debt, but the debts of the 4 corps I've seen are astounding and that's not sustainable.

We'll see what the 2022 999 says. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I am going by the information I have access to, and I would find it impossible to believe that they erased the biggest debt of any DCI corps in such a short time.

Edited December 18, 2022 by DudleytheWest

[DudleytheWest]

5 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

I’m not blaming DCI that much.  I did in the 70’s and 80’s because they pushed corps to tour in places that they really couldn’t afford. Like the open up the south tour.  That didn’t do my corps any financial favors.  And I didn’t see the benefit for us either. 

I'm not blaming them entirely, but they institute change after change after change that drives up the costs of running and completing at the highest level, and change after change after change that reduces a level playing field. You just can't have talent and a good design anymore to win, you have to literally bankrupt yourself.

Edited December 18, 2022 by DudleytheWest

[LabMaster]

6 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

I’m not blaming DCI that much.  I did in the 70’s and 80’s because they pushed corps to tour in places that they really couldn’t afford. Like the open up the south tour.  That didn’t do my corps any financial favors.  And I didn’t see the benefit for us either. 

I agree with you on touring.  DCI the org., looked at it as a way to grow the corps as they were dwindling in numbers nationwide.  Making touring look appealing to corps, resulted maybe in a faster decline in local corps.  It costs more and more each year to tour.  Moreso lately and costs are rising at a rapid rate.  Also what is/was unexpected that contributes to cost,  is housing due the liability community’s don’t want, to have corps stay in their schools.
What DCI the org didn’t do was increase member counts from 128 to 154, increase pit instrumentation, require amplification, and so on.  A full pit today, costs in the range of $1m, for all the instrumentation and electronics.  Corps voted all that in.  These changes were brought forth by the top corps with little regard for lower tier corps or start up corps.  Or true sustainability.  It is now starting to catch up with some corps who, as it turns out, are poor planners.

[DudleytheWest]

3 minutes ago, LabMaster said:

Corps voted all that in.  These changes were brought forth by the top corps with little regard for lower tier corps or start up corps.  Or true sustainability.  It is now starting to catch up with some corps who, as it turns out, are poor planners.

This is well said, and I don't understand it. This is one of my biggest problems with the activity - the top corps have always, seemingly, only cared about their success rather than the activity as a whole. 

[Boss Anova]

31 minutes ago, DudleytheWest said:

 Maybe they got rid of that debt in one (or two) years, but I'm not sure

 You are correct on both, ie  1) "got rid of debt "  and 2 ) " not sure ".

 DCI appears to be making changes in some aspects to limit the damage that covid years off, inflation, cost of goods and services, housing, fuel, etc have had on the Corps. Corps are no longer having 25-32 shows a season, traveling more regionally ( Corps not traveling out to west coast anymore ), and several corps are keeping tuition costs flat lined, despite their increasing costs of fuel, housing, etc.

 SCV pretty much was locked into one predominent fund raising stream instead of diversification. Covid came and they lost 50% of their previous income strreams, took off a year with no appearance fees, had staff and marcher morale issues, and comings and goings at the Corps Directorship level, all created a tsumani of events that ultimately brought them to this decision to take another season off from performing, and see if such a breather pause can give them the time to figure out how to erase the debt and get back out there. A tall order, but if anyone can do it, perhaps SCV can do it... time will tell. I wish them success in this effort .

Edited December 18, 2022 by Boss Anova

[DudleytheWest]

3 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

 You are correct on both, ie  1) "got rid of debt "  and 2 ) " not sure ".

I'll look at their 2022 990 when it's available instead of taking the word of anyone on DCP. 

[Boss Anova]

13 minutes ago, DudleytheWest said:

I'll look at their 2022 990 when it's available instead of taking the word of anyone on DCP. 

 Yes. Sounds like a wise decision. The amount of misinformation out there on social media these days ( some posted from folks that havnt been to a DCI show in 10, 20, 30 years +, etc ) is pretty remarkable.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Boss Anova

[DudleytheWest]

2 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

 Yes. Sounds like a wise decision. The amount of misinformation out there on social media these days ( some posted from folks that havnt been to a DCI show in 30-40 years ) is pretty remarkable.

Yes, I know. I'm not getting any information from any source other that qualified public records. If they somehow paid off $2.2M in one year that is truly remarkable, and they should give a class to these other corps on how to do it. 

It's a symptom of the activity. If you don't run $3M+ you're not going to have a chance to win. It's crazy.

[craiga]

Although I am an ardent BAC supporter, I obviously have no access to their books.  However, my guess would be that the "debt" you are referring to is probably a mortgage on their commercial property in Hyde Park, Massachusetts.  It is not only where the corps offices are housed and where many employees work, it also houses other businesses including an outstanding community theater.  If you know anything about real estate values in the Boston market, they are in a very good position with this property.

[DudleytheWest]

1 hour ago, craiga said:

Although I am an ardent BAC supporter, I obviously have no access to their books.  However, my guess would be that the "debt" you are referring to is probably a mortgage on their commercial property in Hyde Park, Massachusetts.  It is not only where the corps offices are housed and where many employees work, it also houses other businesses including an outstanding community theater.  If you know anything about real estate values in the Boston market, they are in a very good position with this property.

That's a fair point. I am sure that is part of it, albeit I'm not sure how much of it. I'd be curious to know when they bought that property.

According to their 2021 990 at the beginning of 2021 they had $1,304,584 in debts attributed to "Secured mortgage and notes payable to unrelated third parties." By the end of 2021 that number was $2,256,445, with total liabilities almost listed at $2,600,000.

Under "Land, building and equipment" they list the end of 2021 values at $1,059,372. Therefore, since you can't finance over 100% of the value of a property (or even 100%), the mortgage on their property has to be a relatively small percentage of their overall debt. 

I'm not claiming to be an expert here. Just looking at numbers on the 990's as Vanguard's situation has made me concerned about other corps. I know more goes into it than just what's on the 990s, but the amount of money these top corps are spending year over year is out of control. 

Is it worth it to win one year only to be inactive the next? I know that exactly hasn't happened, but this end here. Vanguard is just the beginning of the end. This is not sustainable.... for any corps.

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by DudleytheWest