JimF-LowBari Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ZTWright said: Why would they? Why should they? You don't see McDonalds giving a handout to Wendy's. The same comments were made when the SCV news first broke, about why other corps weren't helping them. Again, why should they? Why is it their job to help them out? Why would it have been DCIs job to help out local circuits? If Wendy’s goes away then McDs gets more business. As more corps and shows go away the more it hurts the activity and the corps still around. Don’t know the details of DCM but tired of this “not anyone’s business if the activity shrinks by losing corps”. But let everyone only worry about their own little piece and then wonder where the hades are all the corps, shows and fans Edited April 18, 2023 by JimF-LowBari 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Tenoris4Jazz said: This all goes back to the purpose of drum and bugle corps as defined from the 1930's to the 1960's versus the DCI era. So many dc units were sponsored by local parishes or churches and VFW/American Legion posts so as to give kids something to do during the summer to keep them out of trouble. They learned about music and being part of a team. The competition was a minor component. Flip the switch on making competition and "artistic expression" the major motivators and it started eroding the basic life educational aspect of drum corps' reason to exist. It's been said many times before, but there were once 150 to 200 drum corps performing during the summer season. With the current model, you can't sustain more than 15 to 20. Pro sports (and college sports for that matter) went from paying players $25k/year to $25 million a year, but they grew revenue proportionally to cover that. DCI has increased budgets from $500k to $5 million, but the revenue never made that leap. except that in 1960-1990 there were WAYYYY less activity options for kids to do. So drum corps was a monopoly. Now we have sports on sports on sports on sports, dance, ballet, studio art camps, music camps, STEM camps, coding camps... there's an endless list of activities for kids. Many of which cost less than drum corps. In the 2010 all the way up until my last teaching season i had to schedule students time's when they COULD be at drum corps versus when there were are (insert name of the plethora of other things they wanted to do in summer). its a struggle. and even at school now, there's no rules about how many sports or activities that they can do, so they just do it all. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Tenoris4Jazz said: This all goes back to the purpose of drum and bugle corps as defined from the 1930's to the 1960's versus the DCI era. So many dc units were sponsored by local parishes or churches and VFW/American Legion posts so as to give kids something to do during the summer to keep them out of trouble. They learned about music and being part of a team. The competition was a minor component. Flip the switch on making competition and "artistic expression" the major motivators and it started eroding the basic life educational aspect of drum corps' reason to exist. It's been said many times before, but there were once 150 to 200 drum corps performing during the summer season. With the current model, you can't sustain more than 15 to 20. Pro sports (and college sports for that matter) went from paying players $25k/year to $25 million a year, but they grew revenue proportionally to cover that. DCI has increased budgets from $500k to $5 million, but the revenue never made that leap. How many churches, AL and VFW posts can afford to have a DC? Even at the cheaper costs of BITD probably just a few. I did the Sr corps scene so didn’t worry about the educational or keeping out of trouble mindsets. But Srs lost a great percentage of corps just like the Jr world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: How many churches, AL and VFW posts can afford to have a DC? Even at the cheaper costs of BITD probably just a few. I did the Sr corps scene so didn’t worry about the educational or keeping out of trouble mindsets. But Srs lost a great percentage of corps just like the Jr world. There's a few "Six Flags over (insert religion)" that could easily fund DCI, a nationwide network of soup kitchens, affordable housing, and that's in addition to their existing several million dollars worth of legal fees for HR concerns and suspect practices. Edited April 18, 2023 by C.Holland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lesher Posted April 18, 2023 Author Share Posted April 18, 2023 1 hour ago, ZTWright said: Why would they? Why should they? You don't see McDonalds giving a handout to Wendy's. The same comments were made when the SCV news first broke, about why other corps weren't helping them. Again, why should they? Why is it their job to help them out? Why would it have been DCIs job to help out local circuits? Exactly. Let's be clear, I was once in the inner Board of Directors circle. So I originally reached out that way. Ignored, brushed off. Others too were reaching out to help them. No one is obligated to help other corps. All the corps have their own challenges. As much as this is horrible for the activity, I hope this reminds everyone everywhere this continues to be a reoccurring theme among our activity. Right now Vanguard is the channel everyone wants to turn to and watch, but they didn't Bill Cosby their marching members and staff, the didn't have a CEO recently embezzle from the organization. Speaking of which, SCV continues to "exist" despite itself. It's BINGO, located in the strongest economic region of the USA with sufficient enough population density to provide the numbers to come through the door to play Bingo, and they own the building they operate in. That is the only reason they are still here. ******* Here's what I hope............ I force SCV's Board to only be left with the right decision pathway. I hope that I am a part of that pathway. It is in the economic power of the Bingo Business Model for SCV to field an entire World Class Corps with a budget of $4,000,000, and not have to charge the marching members a dime. But all the elements of operations have to have their act together. They could add back the SCV Cadets, and need tour fees to supplement both corps, but it would still be drastically less expenses than comparable Corps. ******* Now....... what I think they should do, to convince the DC community they have their act together is 1) Show on hand the entire resources for a reasonable operating budget before the season starts. Proof is by showing the DCI board SCV's financial bank account statements, and well as the financial statements (Audited of course, for the love of god), and they don't have debt obligations countering their liquidity means. 2) Show they have a line of credit sufficient to cover any emergencies that may occur that would happen outside of their budgeted resources currently on hand. 3) Then as a gesture of good will, to the entire community, don't charge a tour fee greater than 50% of the cheapest top 12 tour fees. (ideally, if it could be $0 and all the members had to do was get themselves to SCV and back that would be great, but I don't think that is possible). If SCV could manage to raise enough funding that can cover Bingo Salaries there is technically no economic need to charge marching members anything. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, C.Holland said: except that in 1960-1990 there were WAYYYY less activity options for kids to do. So drum corps was a monopoly. Now we have sports on sports on sports on sports, dance, ballet, studio art camps, music camps, STEM camps, coding camps... there's an endless list of activities for kids. Many of which cost less than drum corps. In the 2010 all the way up until my last teaching season i had to schedule students time's when they COULD be at drum corps versus when there were are (insert name of the plethora of other things they wanted to do in summer). its a struggle. and even at school now, there's no rules about how many sports or activities that they can do, so they just do it all. No argument there and totally agree. When my old church studied why membership was down we found out why lot of activities that were big in the 60s were down or dying. Basically came down to more options and more mobility (IOW cars) so people had more options in activities and were able to go outside of the neighborhood to do them. In our case question was why are the old mainstream city churches closing. Lot of it came down to people able to drive to the church they want so… why the hell (pun intended) go to a scary part of the city with crappy or no parking. Few years back the old church had a combo dinner. Part 125th anniversary celebration and part…. been a good run but we’re closing up. Edited April 18, 2023 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZTWright Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Terri Schehr said: I don’t respond to that person. But, McDonalds and Wendy’s are not nonprofits who purport to be in the best interest of youth. What a silly analogy. The truth is, is that they’re all a bunch of greedy, self serving ####s whose interest in the activity at the lower level, is zero. Doesn't respond to my person, but then responds anyway. 🤦 It's okay though, I'll be the decent one and continue the conversation with you even though you want to continue to be rude. Non-profit and for-profit are still businesses. It's not silly, as you don't see other non-profits bailing each other out every day. They're not banks. That's basically robbing Peter to pay Paul. Finally something we agree on! DCI doesn't care about the little man, only those that will turn a profit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZTWright Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 54 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: If Wendy’s goes away then McDs gets more business. As more corps and shows go away the more it hurts the activity and the corps still around. Don’t know the details of DCM but tired of this “not anyone’s business if the activity shrinks by losing corps”. But let everyone only worry about their own little piece and then wonder where the hades are all the corps, shows and fans I never said it's not anyone's business if the activity shrinks. I'm just asking why is it another corps or organizations responsibility to bail another out when it's their own fault that they didn't take care of things like they should have at home? SCV only has SCV to blame and nobody should expect any corps to bail them out, nor the "governing body" (term used loosely) of DCI itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ZTWright said: I never said it's not anyone's business if the activity shrinks. I'm just asking why is it another corps or organizations responsibility to bail another out when it's their own fault that they didn't take care of things like they should have at home? SCV only has SCV to blame and nobody should expect any corps to bail them out, nor the "governing body" (term used loosely) of DCI itself. I wasn’t totally clear. Wasn’t saying corps should pony up the bucks when another corps has problems or does something stupid. Just seen too many posts (not yours) of basically saying “they disbanded because of stupidity so good riddance, we won’t miss them”. Also DCIs attitude of if a corps ain’t top 12 or on the board then it’s “who are you again, should we really care”.. 🤮 Edited April 18, 2023 by JimF-LowBari 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 23 minutes ago, Richard Lesher said: It is in the economic power of the Bingo Business Model for SCV to field an entire World Class Corps with a budget of $4,000,000, and not have to charge the marching members a dime. But all the elements of operations have to have their act together. This would also help Vanguard more fully embody the non profit model... and increase access for prospective members from marginalized communities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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