Let's Talk About the Blue Devils...

[DWW11]

29 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

And yet people go to the movies, they just don’t go to see those movies. Pretty clear that’s what is happening in DCI, which is fine so long as you have corps that draw—and right now that seems to be Crown and Bluecoats.

Love em or hate em, when you ask someone to go to a corps show, invariably they will ask “will BD be there?”.

[DWW11]

This whole thread disturbs me.  People complaining that BD wouldn’t win if they were coerced or forced to change up their style and/or music?  With the instructors and member talent in this organization, i believe they could come up with another undefeated season if they were told to do a whole show using nursery rhyme songs!  

[billj]

29 minutes ago, DWW11 said:

He LITERALLY offered the scenario of Phantom as a corps who MUST play some classical music every year!

The topic isn't PR

[drumcorpsfever]

13 hours ago, GraysonHarris said:

You want them to stop playing jazz? Are you nuts? That is literally their legacy and style of music they have always been associated with. 

That's like asking Phantom to have a show with no classical music. 

Sheesh!

I get what saying. Kind of what works for them and their signature - “brand” if you will. However, I recall a conversation years ago about the Bluecoats having no show brand. It was actually a good thing because of the freedom the corps could go in - you know, not being locked in to any specific style. Well, about 10-12 years later, it’s worked out pretty darn well for the Bluecoats, hasn’t it?

As for 2023 Phantom, I’m not feeling as much a classical vibe to their show as I do Bluecoats-like swagger-vibe. Whatever it is, I love it!

[DWW11]

5 minutes ago, billj said:

The topic isn't PR

No kidding?

Edited July 27, 2023 by DWW11

[DFA1970]

Lets talk about the Blue Devils.....How about undefeated since the end of 2019. It's now 2023. Yes erase 2020-21. If they adapted to others style they still would be successful. This argument has been going on for DECADES!!!!!

[DCI-86]

13 hours ago, Sh0uldN0t said:

While he makes reasonable arguments, I think he misses one of the major complaints about BD. It's less that BD's programs are all the same or calibrated only to the judges. It's that they don't take the chances some other corps do. And even if they do, too many of its programs don't engage the audience. 

I see it this way. BD has immense talent on the field and among the staff. It has better resources than others. Shouldn't they wow us more? The fact that they don't and still win is a big part of the hate. 

Clarification: I don't hate BD.

I completely agree with this.  I feel that is the responsibility of a champion to try new things and break new ground - I think BD did that to get into their modern era of championships but have stuck with a formula (give or take) and where there was a 'weakness' (e.g. losing guard to Boston), they have followed what the winner was doing (e.g. more tricks and harder work in the context of guard). 

But when was the last time we saw something truly innovative from them?

 

 

[ContraFart]

9 hours ago, GraysonHarris said:

Listen pal. While I appreciate the fact that you know your cocktails and such (I work at very well-known cocktail bar in the US), it seems to me that you are trying to impose your opinion of Blue Devils on those who have a different opinion. 

We get it. You don't like Blue Devils. 

Fine. 

No problem. 

However, I think you are getting to the point of being overconfident of your opinion and thinking that the vast majority of drum corps land has the same opinion as you. 

You are more than welcome to opine on why you think the judges got the past X DCI champions wrong, but the reality is that your opinion...is just your opinion. It's neither right or wrong. 

With that being said, the opinions of others (including @Cappybara) are their own opinions and they are entitled to it. I happen to be a fan of Blue Devils (mostly by default, as my father is a FMM from the mid-80s), but I don't presume to think that everyone else SHOULD hold the same viewpoints on Blue Devils or anyone for that matter. In fact, I don't really care if people agree or disagree with  my viewpoints! Yes, I am snarky. Yes, I call it like I see it. Yes, I sometimes don't have a filter. But what I do almost obsessively is respect the opinions of others. 

You seem to be obsessed with pointing out how the opinions of others are wrong. You seem like a well-adjusted, educated and decent human being. However in this case, and throughout the duration of this thread, you are making it clear about your disdain for the Blue Devils in a way that is not a good look. 

So, continue on with your mantra if you want! I just wanted to take a few minutes and call you out on your disrespect to others for having an opinion different than yours. 

Here's to a great Manhattan in your future! Prost!

You have every right to believe I am wrong as well. I have never once said that BD should not have won any of their titles, I am pointing to 2 specific years with very unorthodox judging results. 

My main point is and has always been that the top 4 or 5 corps are relatively equal in talent, execution and staff. The fact that a single corps wins 60% of the time is a problem, and I will present that issue as a fact. 

[DFA1970]

4 minutes ago, DCI-86 said:

I completely agree with this.  I feel that is the responsibility of a champion to try new things and break new ground - I think BD did that to get into their modern era of championships but have stuck with a formula (give or take) and where there was a 'weakness' (e.g. losing guard to Boston), they have followed what the winner was doing (e.g. more tricks and harder work in the context of guard). 

But when was the last time we saw something truly innovative from them?

 

 

What do you considered "innovated"......I would love to hear. New unis that don't reflect BD's look? Please tell.....

[ContraFart]

9 hours ago, resipsaloquitur said:

I wasn't implying anything. But since you chose to make an issue of it, I'll play your little game.

Staff longevity may be equal, but teaching ability certainly isn't across the board. Have you ever had a great coach that brought you to another level? I have. I've also had others who meant well but weren't up to the task. As for BD staff, they could get more out of a 12 year old who couldn't read music (and they do, in case of BDC) than most could get out of seasoned musicians. And before you go off reading any unwonted "implication" in what I said, I said "most."

As for longevity, let me ask you this, what other corps have had the same core staff for over 30+ years? I almost flipped when I saw they're still training with Scojo the hall o' famer who's got 45+ years of coaching experience who's carried the DCI percussion torch through 19 championships (ahem, it'd be a stretch to accuse judges being biased 19 times over 19 separate years). I hear they also get coaching from Brandon Olander himself. Clearly a staff to be reckoned with. Because, as with last year, they could take a very young, green drumline and get 19+ points out of them.

Bluecoats have had the same core staff for 20+ years. Colin and Geno have been working together that long as well. Matt Harloff is at about 20 years with Crown. Dean Westman and Doug Thrower are at Bluecoats over 20 years as well. I understand 30+ years is more than 20+ years, but I do not put BDs instructional staff on another level like BD apologists tend to do. Again I will repeat, The talent, execution and staffs of the top 4 or 5 corps are relatively equal.