Madison Scouts 2024

[1992AllOverAgain]

On 8/13/2023 at 12:01 AM, arabica said:

but the circular rantings of "snakes", "dictatorships", "tyrants" and "regimes" by some can take that echo chamber someplace else: it's not welcome here.

 

 

Thank you.

[madisonsmiley]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:01 PM, arabica said:

For 2024 let's have an honest and passionate discussion about what the corps needs to do to get where we all want them to be, but the circular rantings of "snakes", "dictatorships", "tyrants" and "regimes" by some can take that echo chamber someplace else: it's not welcome here.

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
--Confucius

[TenHut]

17 minutes ago, madisonsmiley said:

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
--Confucius

100%. No organization can succeed with horrible leadership and until Madison fires this regime nothing changes, ever.

[madisonsmiley]

On 9/2/2023 at 4:14 PM, TenHut said:

100%. No organization can succeed with horrible leadership and until Madison fires this regime nothing changes, ever.

The board is the root cause of the organization's issues. They are what is called a self-perpetuating board. The current board picks any new board members. They love Chris, are afraid of losing him, and won't appoint any new board members who would rock the boat. The board is failing their primary duty, which is to recruit and manage the performance of the CEO/Executive Director. I can't see anything changing given the current circumstances. They'll continue to field a corps and may, from year to year, move up or down a notch or two, but we won't see any meaningful improvement and other organizations will continue building thriving, high performance organizations that field more competitive corps. Overall, their long-term average placement at the DCI Championships under Chris' leadership continues to decline. They are satisfied being able to provide a positive member experience, which is a baseline for all DCI corps.

Edited September 4, 2023 by madisonsmiley

[Vuitton]

On 8/13/2023 at 9:08 AM, MikeRapp said:

This is just my own personal observation and it’s not based in anything but experience: it seems most of the design issues around Madison that are clearly not working are likely the result of budget pressures.

Boston always had good designers but they didn’t have the money to fund the sort of commitment that it takes to be a perennial medal contender. This now includes huge props (and all the expenses that go with maintaining and shipping them) and concert level audio systems.

It doesn’t take rocket science to understand that just hiring “better” designers isn’t likely to just change your show and performance quality.

Hiring the educator staff that is now in place at Boston also came with changing and dramatically increasing budgets for training and design—literally committing to an entirely new and frankly scary level of finances. And if you aren’t making finals, your budget just got slashed.

Is it realistic to expect Madison to compete with perennial medalist contending corps on a shoestring budget?

 

You raise so many good points here.

I will add the first problem is design. A show can be well designed under any budget. Design is the heart of Madison's problems. I'm not expecting a championship caliber design, but a design that gives them a shot at placing 12th is paramount. I knew when I saw their 2023 preview show they were going to be sitting on based on design alone. It simply fell very short of all above them and a few below them. 

The second problem is us almuni. If the adminstration hadn't alienated us they would likely have a much bigger budget. Madison has a massive alumni that they can and should be tapping into. I'll tell you, if I suddenly won the lottery (which I wouldn't because I don't play) my money would go to Vanguard or a dream of ressurecting a folded corps, like the 27th Lancers, not Madison. They aren't getting a penny of my money.

The third problem is talent. The talent just doesn't stick around at Madison. They are a feeder corps. People can go on and on about how members don't care about placement, but they do. Members learn at Madison and move on to higher placing  corps to get the experience of succeeding in competiion and performing in more complex and challenging shows.

It's a simple fact that as long as the current leadership and board remains in place, Madison isn't going to have any success competitively. As soon as a member signs their contract they have given up any hope of making the top 12.

[Vuitton]

On 8/13/2023 at 9:42 AM, MikeRapp said:

Yes but you wouldn’t be able to hire them without dramatically changing the budget and committing to medalist-level design.

I think you have to take design step ups. Regiment 2022 and 2023 illustrate this perfectly. Both were great shows, but 2023 elevated their design compared to 2022, but didn't push it too far. I wasn't surprised they ultimately ended up in 7th but the 2023 show was miles ahead of a really good 2022 show, IMO. This is how you rise a corps through the ranks. 

But, you are right, who knows if they have the budget to pay really talented designers and technical staff - appears not.

[Vuitton]

On 8/14/2023 at 5:20 PM, fighterkit said:

But Madison needs to make the decision to continue to pander towards the alumni or pander towards the judges. You cannot do both. 

There is no pandering to the alumni. Yes, there are always those few voices, but the vast majority of the alumni want well designed shows, that are competitive successful, within the confines of modern drum corps. We didn't want to show like 2019, contrary to what someone has said on here, nor do want the corps to remain in the past. We want modernization. That's it. I think the alumni of every corps have that in common.

This whole "toxic alumni" line was created by those who support and pander to Chris K. Simple as.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Vuitton

[Vuitton]

On 8/14/2023 at 5:20 PM, fighterkit said:

I think that Madison is on the right track to make the moves they need to. This was always going to be a 5 year plan and assuming that all these staff changes would shoot them up into the top 12 in one year is a little silly. 

I am not being fecitious here but I would really love your thoughts as to why you think they are on the right track. Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't see a drop in placement and a show design that isn't any better than previous designs as being on the right track. Furthermore, they have, IMO, fielded their weakest guard in history in 2023. 

There have been corps, throughout history, who have moved from 15th/16th into finals in one season, so it's not out of the realm of possiblity. I wouldn't care if they were 16th and had a great show design, because THAT would give me hope for their future, but based on the designs they have been putting out since 2015 I am hopeless.

[Vuitton]

On 8/16/2023 at 7:57 PM, arabica said:

I want that for Madison again too. And I agree with you about Bloo, they are filling a niche from an energy, repertoire, and yes - swagger - standpoint that feels like an evolution of Madison. 

Yes, I remember thinking if I had been away from the activity for a couple decades and didn't know who was performing, I would think Bluecoats were Madison and Crown were Regiment.

[TenHut]

3 hours ago, madisonsmiley said:

The board is the root cause of the organization's issues. They are what is called a self-perpetuating board. The current board picks any new board members. They love Chris, are afraid of losing him, and won't appoint any new board members who would rock the boat. The board is failing their primary duty, which is to recruit and manage the performance of the CEO/Executive Director. I can't see anything changing given the current circumstances. They'll continue to field a corps and may, from year to year, move up or down a notch or two, but we won't see any meaningful improvement and other organizations will continue building thriving, high performance organizations that field more competitive corps. Overall, their long-term average placement at the DCI Championships under Chris' leadership continues to decline. They are satisfied being able to provide a positive member experience, which is a baseline for all DCI corps.

Yup.