lawdn Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said: This is how I read it as well - what we don’t know (yet) is if there are, or will be, financial consequences, like a tax bill, for the years that they were running bingo but not legally a nonprofit As of today, I could not find VMAPA on CA Franchise Tax Board’s list of Revoked Exempt Organizations, which is updated monthly. An entity named “Vanguard” in Milpitas is listed but surely that is unrelated to VMAPA. So yay, for now. I can’t begin to express how much more I would rather be speculating about what kind of show SCV might mount for its successful return to competition rather than searching State of California nonprofit websites. Oh, for full honesty and transparency - c’mon, VMAPA, please address this publicly! I so much want to believe. Edited September 9, 2023 by lawdn 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 2 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: Mmmmmm 🤔 Guess time to bring up my “is this tax deductible” or not story. Take standard deduction on taxes so didn’t matter to me but this came out shady. Wanted to donate to a members dues but the corps wanted donors to give through the corps and not directly to the member. Corps had form to use. Wish I could remember exactly what was posted that made this way sound deductible, somehow. But do remember that I would get something from the corps to verify my donation which is standard for other groups. Two years in a row I gave and nothing back from the corps. Emailed to make sure they weren’t getting ripped off and the freaking corps head (some guy named Roman) responded. Guy said the member I donated to should have sent a thank you message for the donation. If I wanted to discuss it further here was the members PERSONAL EMAIL ADDRESS (without the member knowing this was given out). With that the corps took no responsibility. i have donated through a few corps sites over the years for specific members....all had very easy processes and emailed me documentation i could use for tax purposes. now, i will admit i didn't donate to the corps you had the issues with. But i know through Colts, Phantom and SCV, i had no issues getting the docs needed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 2 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said: Confirmed here: https://labyrinthinc.com/texas-fundraising-registration-requirements/ Ew, my home state is, guess what, pretty lax on this stuff. No one is surprised. Edit to add: However, bingo is not their only revenue source. Donations and grants are also revenue. So are services provided, like those provided in exchange for member fees, which come from all over. I don't think member fees are donations... but I could be wrong and welcome correction. This is why having a weathered nonprofit pro (not just board experience, but admin, outside of insular drum corps) or lawyer in their ranks might be wise. 'Cause people like me thrive on learning more about this stuff and dig our heels in when we aren't provided transparent information. however, because of how they set themselves up, and keep forgoing diversifying beyond bingo, it may as well be. i'd be leery giving them a grant right now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Sutasaurus said: I get what you’re saying, but from what I can tell it appears DCI is applying a different set of rules to SCV’s return to the field than other corps that have sat out for a season, or two if you count 2020. cue Boston 2014...not all corps are created equal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 1 hour ago, lawdn said: As of today, I could not find VMAPA on CA Franchise Tax Board’s list of Revoked Exempt Organizations, which is updated monthly. An entity named “Vanguard” in Milpitas is listed but surely that is unrelated to VMAPA. So yay, for now. I can’t begin to express how much more I would rather be speculating about what kind of show SCV might mount for its successful return to competition rather than searching State of California nonprofit websites. Oh, for full honesty and transparency - c’mon, VMAPA, please address this publicly! I so much want to believe. that they say nothing is a HUGE red flag. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: however, because of how they set themselves up, and keep forgoing diversifying beyond bingo, it may as well be. i'd be leery giving them a grant right now Indeed. I've outlined on this forum for @keystone3ply the assurances I'd expect any nonprofit in this situation to provide to me to feel comfortable with any donation of money or time, or even employment. Edited September 9, 2023 by scheherazadesghost typo, syntax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 8 hours ago, cixelsyd said: I would like a better idea what you mean by "micromanage". Here is an excerpt from the DCI Policies and Procedures Manual regarding what it takes for an open-class corps to move up to world-class: Open Class to World Class Participant • Leadership/director must participate in a mentorship program in which an Open Class director will be paired with a WC Member for general guidance. May also be paired with subject matter expert(s) in specific areas of need • Top 25 for 3 consecutive years • Revenue in year 3 of this process should be at least $750k with positive earnings before depreciation • A positive net worth of $50,000 or more in each of the past three fiscal years • The budget for year 4 (first year in World Class) should include a surplus of $50,000. • Financial Statement prepared by an Outside Accounting Firm (Financial Audit or Financial Review as required by your governing state) • Independent Board defined by good governance best practices • Monthly cash flow projection for year 4 (first year in World Class) • Debt to equity ratio should be lower than 3 to 1, e.g. long-term lease, notes payable, accounts payable After the above criteria are met, then organization can request to become a World Class Participant • Evaluation/interview by DCI CEO • If recommended by CEO, organization presents to the DCI Board of Directors for potential ratification Is this still just what you would call a "review", or does it cross the line to "micromanage"? DCI has always had many "long winded" policies........what you post is from open to world.......right, wrong, or indifferent....DCI isn't going to treat a corps that was in finals from 1972 - 2021 as a "new world class corps"....... Yes, DCI DOES look at corps making the move from open to world in detail.......they want the corps to succeed and not be in over their head.........however, DCI doesn't have the manpower/resources to do financial analysis of all of their members........the fiscal health of each corps is each corps' responsibility......also, it would become unfair if one corps was precluded from competition/touring because of fiscal health, yet others with the same or worse problems are allowed to "slide"......many competitors would disappear if hard ball was played here.......... That said, there have been DCI World Class corps hit the field at the start of the year still $300,000+ in debt.....with no investigation/inquiries by DCI........even in the 1980's there were corps who hit the field with this level of debt....imagine what that would be in 2023 dollars......... If anything good came out of SCV's case, it is for all corps to take a serious look at their fiscal house, and that it is probably not a good idea to spend more money than you take in.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 7 hours ago, MarimbaManiac said: The fact that you are defending their actions surrounding that camp, is very telling. There is NO DEFENSE for what they did, and on that point alone the organization should have been ashamed and stepped forward to make very public apologies and restitutions. The students didn't sign up for an "instructional clinic," they signed up for an audition for an opportunity, which they did not receive. Anyone that's going to blindly support what the organization does from this point forward, without asking for receipts or oversight, is contributing to the same problem that started this mess. It might be the financial side that finally collapsed the house of cards, but it was built on secrecy and by taking advantage of a naive and trusting DCI/alumni/fan base. As of now I've seen nothing that shows they've made the necessary cultural changes, so I see nothing that deserves blind trust. I am not at all defending SCV's actions last year involving the audition camp held and then the corps declaring no season the following week. I simply pointed out that the returning of funds was/is a grey area from a legal outlook. Auditions did happen, feedback was given, instruction happened, the kids were housed, they were fed. However, I also agree that there certainly would be an argument that kids were deceived, because they were paying to audition to be a part of a touring competitive drum corps, and the corps did not follow through with that at all. (not justifying it, but there have been many a corps that was practicing even well into the Spring, who then decided to not come out....ALWAYS a bad scene). I agree that the corps should've made every effort to try to reimburse kids (or offer the audition free of charge this year as an elective alternative). Also agreed that they had better get their fiscal house (and all process involving that) in order, and be transparent from here out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bob984 said: I am not at all defending SCV's actions last year involving the audition camp held and then the corps declaring no season the following week. I simply pointed out that the returning of funds was/is a grey area from a legal outlook. Auditions did happen, feedback was given, instruction happened, the kids were housed, they were fed. However, I also agree that there certainly would be an argument that kids were deceived, because they were paying to audition to be a part of a touring competitive drum corps, and the corps did not follow through with that at all. (not justifying it, but there have been many a corps that was practicing even well into the Spring, who then decided to not come out....ALWAYS a bad scene). I agree that the corps should've made every effort to try to reimburse kids (or offer the audition free of charge this year as an elective alternative). Also agreed that they had better get their fiscal house (and all process involving that) in order, and be transparent from here out. There is not grey area here. The corps was not transparent, has never been transparent, and is showing no signs of a desire to be transparent in the future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Amil Muzz said: SCV has proven themselves to be an unreliable business partner. They flaked out on the post-COVID tour and sent a video and through a complete failure to take care of their financial obligations they flaked out last season. They don't seem to get that they are under a big microscope. Many of the ugliest issues that have plagued the activity in recent years, this organization has been the epicenter of a lot of it. The Troopers were tossed from DCI for the same thing that is on going here. They seem to be reluctant to be transparent. They are continuing down the same path that led them here. These aren't opinions, they are facts. Hard facts. The General Membership of DCI has some hard choices to make. Their gross financial malpractice leaves DCI in a bad spot, just like the Troopers prior to their suspension. It is grossly unfair to the organizations who struggled thru COVID to come out the other side. Again, look at Troopers. Pre COVID- very weak, post COVID setting new standards for themselves. SCV has to rebuild trust that they aren't going to flake, AGAIN for the 3rd time. They have a suspect management structure. They don't seem to have learned anything. There is a word for this- HUBRIS. There is one way that ends and it's not good for anyone. Especially the students and families who chose to engage with an organization that's shown to be unresponsive to scrutiny. Not disagreeing with many of your overall sentiments......however, there were other corps (including BD, Crown) who did not participate in the "post-Covid tour" of 2021 (and those groups produced videos, too)...no biggie, but there were good reasons that they (SCV) and some others chose not to participate in the 2021 tour............. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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