ContraFart Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 29 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: This is precisely the cost-dismissive attitude that has driven hundreds of corps out of the activity, and led to the bind that the few remaining corps now face. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard someone affiliated with one of the "haves" advising a "have-not" to get out, rather than even allow their cost concern to be discussed. Whether it was meant as literal "advice" or not, apparently more and more corps have done as suggested. Now even a couple of the "haves" are taking that advice. Sure. It is the total cost, including non-essentials like those you keep naming, that are making corps fold. If 5-7% of your budget is the reason you are not on the field, then you shouldn't be on the field in the first place. What don't you understand about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, HockeyDad said: When somebody does the case study on why drum corps fell apart they can use this thread as input. Tons of handwringing. All ideas to cut costs dismissed out of hand. They just won’t work. Or - that’s not the cause. Nothing is the cause of excessive expense. Not the tour model, not the staff size, not new uniforms every year (they actually make money!), not the gigantic pit, not amps, not props, nothing!! Nope you can’t take away ANYTHING they must continue to EVOLVE. Evolve right into insolvency. Apparently that’s the end state of drum corps evolution. Yup, we’ll always have our downloads and CDs. And this one - I hear there’s another one coming soon. But I surely couldn’t say who (wink wink coy coy). Let the kids pour more time and effort into it first, Then we’ll let that other shoe drop. I love that approach. We can’t go to a regional model, there aren’t enough regional corps! There aren’t enough regional contests! Well, guess who killed the regional model. Big old DCI itself. Oh no they didn’t! And on and on we go. Yup. Every cost cutting suggestion touches a third-rail. Edited October 15, 2023 by IllianaLancerContra More better English 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 59 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Sure, they know. But not sure they care. In fact, I will go farther and assert that DCI decision making has been biased against proper accounting for cost impacts for all its 50 years. That is because in DCI, the costly decisions have always been made by the elite subset of corps who can afford them. Anyone can look at the track record of drum corps over those 50 years and see the hundreds of corps who have dropped out, often citing costs in their post-mortems. Even today, if information on this forum is correct, corps like SCV and Cadets who sit out a year will lose their voice and vote for a year... and only the corps who can afford perennial extravagance will decide each January what the future will bring. If it seems I focus on cost more than revenue/fundraising, it is due to the apparent need for someone to speak to that side of the equation. If you think that they don't care then you are off the deep end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 38 minutes ago, HockeyDad said: When somebody does the case study on why drum corps fell apart they can use this thread as input. Tons of handwringing. All ideas to cut costs dismissed out of hand. They just won’t work. Or - that’s not the cause. Nothing is the cause of excessive expense. Not the tour model, not the staff size, not new uniforms every year (they actually make money!), not the gigantic pit, not amps, not props, nothing!! Nope you can’t take away ANYTHING they must continue to EVOLVE. Evolve right into insolvency. Apparently that’s the end state of drum corps evolution. Yup, we’ll always have our downloads and CDs. And this one - I hear there’s another one coming soon. But I surely couldn’t say who (wink wink coy coy). Let the kids pour more time and effort into it first, Then we’ll let that other shoe drop. I love that approach. We can’t go to a regional model, there aren’t enough regional corps! There aren’t enough regional contests! Well, guess who killed the regional model. Big old DCI itself. Oh no they didn’t! And on and on we go. If an idea is dismissed out of hand it's because it's not feasible or not the actual reason behind a corps folding. In a 1.7 million dollar budget, is 50k the difference between touring and not touring? Regional models won't work 1. Because we don't have the corps and 2. We don't have the shows. There are too many corps on geographic islands so even a regional model will not cut the costs you think they will. If you think those are ideas are just being dismissed out of hand, you are wrong. They are being dismissed because they are half measures that will not change the root cause of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said: It all adds up. If we want to bring costs down then everything needs to be looked at. Here is another suggestion- as pit is amplified, cut back on size so there is only one player/part. So only need 1-2 marimbas, not 5-6. And so on. Saves space on truck, and maybe then you need one less truck, which brings costs down. That takes away from the ensemble. It takes away the number of pit spots in the activity and no percussion caption head would entertain that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverjohn Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 The real factors are political, cultural, spiritual, economic, and demographic but we are not allowed to discuss those on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Let’s talk about cutting back on whatever.. nah that’s a small percentage. Let’s talk about cutting back on another whatever… nah another small percentage, repeat ad naseum. All those small percentages add up. And some of the big percentages like gas, food, lodging can’t be cut back. So need to look at other areas… nah that’s small percentages. 🤦♂️ 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 12 minutes ago, ContraFart said: That takes away from the ensemble. It takes away the number of pit spots in the activity and no percussion caption head would entertain that idea. Everything is a no-go to cut, isn’t it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 minute ago, IllianaLancerContra said: Everything is a no-go to cut, isn’t it? Can you cut something without lessening the member experience and enhance the product? I am not saying everything is off the table, but this is something you can't legislate. Crossmen and Madison went leaner with staging and that was not their competitive issue. I think the corps are smart enough to know when to not add the kitchen sink if it's going to break them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 7 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Let’s talk about cutting back on whatever.. nah that’s a small percentage. Let’s talk about cutting back on another whatever… nah another small percentage, repeat ad naseum. All those small percentages add up. And some of the big percentages like gas, food, lodging can’t be cut back. So need to look at other areas… nah that’s small percentages. 🤦♂️ At what point do all those cuts bastardize the product and lessen the member experience? People are promoting half measures that really don't address the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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