A follow up message from CA&E's Board Chairperson

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Lance said:

doing drum corps isn't always about building a career pathway.  for example, plenty of music performance majors have been told by their professors that dci is either a waste of time or counterproductive for developing their skills.  yet they do it anyway because they want to and choose to.  

people who are building career pathways via drum corps or the military or anything else owe it to themselves to not spend money or time on something that won't help them with those goals.  if the corps they're thinking about joining isn't as transparent as they'd like about "the experience" they're purchasing, they can choose a different one or not march at all.  

 

 

 

 

 

well i learned to be an ######## in drum corps. it's paid off for me professionally

[GUARDLING]

3 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

Thanks for the well-meaning dialogue. Much appreciated.

Indeed, I was influenced by a steady flow of instructors who made their careers of this activity and who ushered me into it without fully knowing (or disclosing) how pie-in-the-sky such a prospect was. None of them women, mind you. Then I was met with misogyny and the glass ceiling until I caved. This was only perpetuated by the dance field which literally made promises of the same potential. Those who make it in either world, I'm convinced have either wealth, pedigree, or luck... possibly all three.

Sad. "Should realize." I was influenced to continue in the activity by Michael James who is successful in both drum corps and his professional dance career. I pursued a career in dance directly because of my experience. And here's the rub, people who perpetuate this prospect for young people are undoubtedly (but perhaps subconsciously) influenced by the fact that a steady flow of young prospects keeps the money flowing. I see drum corps falling in this category and thus why I'm trying to squeeze more value from it, not for me anymore (that chance is long gone) but for young people who have have higher fees to pay many times over than I did.

Sure, there's always personal choice and freedom. But we can't wave this question off anymore if we want to convince outside sponsors and funders. Why drum corps? Why now? Why should we give our money and time and effort? "Because it's one of many ways young people can make friends" is never going to convince outsiders. Even if it's true.

But here's what's different in the time between your fore-bearers marching and you and me.  When they marched, they were pulling kids off the street and giving them one of few viable chances to learn real world application skills like those held aloft within this thread. With increasing fees, that value is lost to the past and it's a shame 'cause that was a big part of the charitable mission of the activity. I was arguably one of those. Not off the streets, but definitely headed in a bad direction before drum corps.

I think it's easy to let it fall on personal choice. It also dismisses these orgs' responsibility to provide concrete, tangible, definable value in order to be competitive with other activities. It all just sounds like my professors in college dismissing questions about work prospects after spending thousands of dollars and years on a degree in the arts: "it was always about personal enrichment." Well, one can be rich in artistic skill but that doesn't put food on the table. It's sad that we're in a world that pits those two options against each other, but there are some predatory institutions and organizations who feed off of the "enrichment" aspect of what they provide alone. I'm trying to clarify with the brain trust here what the value is so that drum corps doesn't fall into that category moving forward.

You aren't wrong about anything you have said ...AT ALL

From what I gather and please correct  me if I am wrong , It seems the wrong people ushered you into the activity. That has nothing to do with their talents, what they could share with you, their personal success or helping you reach your " drum corps goals " Some young people get wrapped up in their mentors own delusion and at times the low bar they set for themselves. I have seen that many many times , even turning a young person of a little clone ending up with the same bad habits and delusions. Some of these mentors have had longevity in the activity but I have found over the decades their little clones rarely have that same longevity.

Drum Corps does have value and for some a whole lot of delusion sorry to say. Alot can be learned from drum corps and for some that may mean walking away yet still appreciating what they did get out of it.

As far as sponsors, I rarely comment on all those conversations because I have a very different view on it all and what an actual business may or may not get out of  a drum corps sponsorship . As you say the "" Value of it " especially as compared to other charities .

Appreciate the conversation🙂

[GUARDLING]

1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:

well i learned to be an ######## in drum corps. it's paid off for me professionally

and you do it so well DUDE!..lol

[Jeff Ream]

Just now, GUARDLING said:

and you do it so well DUDE!..lol

DUDE you're not even on the conference calls LOL

[scheherazadesghost]

6 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

From what I gather and please correct  me if I am wrong , It seems the wrong people ushered you into the activity. That has nothing to do with their talents, what they could share with you, their personal success or helping you reach your " drum corps goals " Some young people get wrapped up in their mentors own delusion and at times the low bar they set for themselves. I have seen that many many times , even turning a young person of a little clone ending up with the same bad habits and delusions. Some of these mentors have had longevity in the activity but I have found over the decades their little clones rarely have that same longevity.

This feeds into the faulty pipelining that I've identified in the activity. So then, my mentor (mid 90s Cavie champ, Every Body champ), Myron Rosander, Adam Sage, Michael James, Rick Soubel, Rick Valenzuela, Andrea Foersch, Gino Cipriani, Denise Bonfiglio... all of them greats, most of whom are still celebrated, were the wrong people? We've got big issues if that's the case.

I don't discount what you've said... but if the greats are doing this then erm, that speaks pretty low of the activity.

9 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Drum Corps does have value and for some a whole lot of delusion sorry to say. Alot can be learned from drum corps and for some that may mean walking away yet still appreciating what they did get out of it.

Couldn't have summed it up better myself.

Appreciate the convo as well. 🤘🏽😎

[cixelsyd]

1 hour ago, scheherazadesghost said:

So again, I ask, what makes drum corps special... if I can actually go and get (1) performer experience and (2) youth development pretty much anywhere else and spend less money or even earn money? 

That drum corps does it with brass, percussion, movement, and throwing weapon-ish things.

Quote

Are we really just asking young people to keep a historical/legacy art form alive while they sell plasma and get money from OnlyFans pages to do so?

No one is asking people to sell plasma (or that other thing) in order to keep drum corps going.

But to the wider question you raise about how to justify this to potential corporate mega-sponsors?  You are correct - it is not unique in that sense.  A corporate mega-sponsor would therefore be justified in considering a host of other youth activities as viable contestants for their sponsorship dollar.

Edit:

... and since so many other youth activities are cheaper to operate, why should a corporate mega-sponsor take on something as extravagant as contemporary drum corps? 

I do not see that kind of bailout coming.  This is another reason why when the drum corps financial forecast gets stormy, I tend to focus on the cost side of the balance sheet.

Edited October 19, 2023 by cixelsyd

[GUARDLING]

1 minute ago, scheherazadesghost said:

This feeds into the faulty pipelining that I've identified in the activity. So then, my mentor (mid 90s Cavie champ, Every Body champ), Myron Rosander, Adam Sage, Michael James, Rick Soubel, Rick Valenzuela, Andrea Foersch, Gino Cipriani, Denise Bonfiglio... all of them greats, most of whom are still celebrated, were the wrong people? We've got big issues if that's the case.

I don't discount what you've said... but if the greats are doing this then erm, that speaks pretty low of the activity.

Couldn't have summed it up better myself.

Appreciate the convo as well. 🤘🏽😎

No..You have been with some of the greats for sure BUT I can bet knowing all ,a little delusion as well. Maybe it's also in a very small activity people think they can get the same. There can be the right people but also give the wrong message intentionally or not.

[scheherazadesghost]

7 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

That drum corps does it with brass, percussion, movement, and throwing weapon-ish things.

Now we're getting somewhere. In nonprofit speak, that's something akin legacy arts. Something plenty of funders could be interested in giving their money to if they could be convinced.

7 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

No one is asking people to sell plasma (or that other thing) in order to keep drum corps going.

Not directly, of course. But anyone with a heart might see it as a red flag.

[Terri Schehr]

1 minute ago, scheherazadesghost said:

Now we're getting somewhere. In nonprofit speak, that's something akin legacy arts. Something plenty of funders could be interested in giving their money to if they could be convinced.

Not directly, of course. But anyone with a heart might see it as a red flag.

I find it very disturbing.  Next thing you know, they’ll be working at Scores to get tuition money.  

[scheherazadesghost]

4 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

No..You have been with some of the greats for sure BUT I can bet knowing all ,a little delusion as well. Maybe it's also in a very small activity people think they can get the same. There can be the right people but also give the wrong message intentionally or not.

Well that stings.

Plenty of other non soloists in my cohort continued with careers in the activity. Were they also delusional but, idk, lucky? Had more grit or some such other personal quality that I lacked? I doubt it.

And what does it say of an activity that feeds on such "delusions" intentionally or not? We get back to the predatory nature of some arts institutions if that's the case.