ironlips Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, Vuitton said: While, as an alumni, I applaud and support gender inclusion, I don't believe for one second they did it to be inclusive. They did it because they needed to be able to tap into more of the talent pool. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's be real about it. It was just another deserpate and failed attempt by a desperate and failed adminstration to improve on placement. But, while the move perhaps expanded the talent pool for them, nothing has improved from a design perspective. Ok - perhaps musically. But the overall designs have given the corps no hope of making finals from the moment they were written down. I support the membership. I do not support the adminstration. When do you draw the line? When has there been any placement improvement, a substaintial one? Never. Mason left them in good standing when he left and that showed in the 2015 show. Since then, there have been no substantial improvements in placement, there hasn't been one good design, and there has been constant deseparte shifting to try and make something stick, and nothing has sticked. Frankly, they have also failed at being entertaining. While I don't want them to rehash old Madison tunes or shows (they don't have to) they can still be entertaining, and they aren't really. Not compared to how Madison used to be. One of the fan favorites year in and year out, for decades. That's gone now. It's all gone now. It's so disappointing. Haven't beaten Blue Devils at finals since 1988. Haven't beaten Blue Devils at all since 1991. Haven't beaten Cadets at finals since 1988. Haven't beaten Cadets at all since 1995. Haven't beaten Vanguard, Crown, Regiment or Bluecoats since 2005. Haven't beaten Regiment at finals since 1999. None of these corps view Madison as a rival. How is this acceptable to anyone? I really do get where you're coming from. It's the way I feel about the once-great corps I marched with for 10 years (back in the Stone Age). They still exist, but only just barely. And you are correct, it's holistic: you need financing, warm bodies, a visionary at the helm, a good staff, design, desire...etc. Re-inventing the wheel year after year won't cut it. That said, I also can sympathize with those who are trying to dig their corps out of the depths. My advice to them is to avoid repeating policies that are not working. If that means new leadership, in whole or part, so be it. But none of us are walking in their shoes and may have difficulty appreciating the nuances of their problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 12 hours ago, Boss Anova said: The Madison Scouts are clearly in a transition stage. It took a lot of " you know whats " to go from a Male Identified Drum Corps for 80 years to a Co- ed inclusive Drum Corps in 2018. It divided the Alum base at a time when they were already struggling a bit on the competition field. It could have folded the Corps. But it didnt. Their transition from a Male ID'd Drum Corps to a Co-ed inclusive Drum Corps took place just a short time before Covid too its toll on Corps too. They came through that stage and at a time when DCI was also losing, either temporarily, or permanently, 2 Founding Member, Charter Drum Corps in DCI. But the Madison Scouts are still with us. They still produce entertaining shows for many in the audience as they go forth in their rebranding. I applaud the organization for the boldness and courage it took to do what they did knowing it would not be greeted with universal acceptance when announced. But has its fundamental mission it has had for over 80 years changed ? I don't think so. It still serves youth well to help make them strong, self confident individuals. The placement improvements might take some time. They can figure that out in 2024 and in the coming years. They'll get there. It would be helpful if some of the older Madison Scouts alums would love their current Corps as much as many of the current Madison Scouts love them. But thats up to them I suppose. In any event, I wish the Madison Scouts the very best this summer and beyond. sadly people can't handle change on the multple levels you mention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, Vuitton said: While, as an alumni, I applaud and support gender inclusion, I don't believe for one second they did it to be inclusive. They did it because they needed to be able to tap into more of the talent pool. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's be real about it. It was just another deserpate and failed attempt by a desperate and failed adminstration to improve on placement. But, while the move perhaps expanded the talent pool for them, nothing has improved from a design perspective. Ok - perhaps musically. But the overall designs have given the corps no hope of making finals from the moment they were written down. I support the membership. I do not support the adminstration. When do you draw the line? When has there been any placement improvement, a substaintial one? Never. Mason left them in good standing when he left and that showed in the 2015 show. Since then, there have been no substantial improvements in placement, there hasn't been one good design, and there has been constant deseparte shifting to try and make something stick, and nothing has sticked. Frankly, they have also failed at being entertaining. While I don't want them to rehash old Madison tunes or shows (they don't have to) they can still be entertaining, and they aren't really. Not compared to how Madison used to be. One of the fan favorites year in and year out, for decades. That's gone now. It's all gone now. It's so disappointing. Haven't beaten Blue Devils at finals since 1988. Haven't beaten Blue Devils at all since 1991. Haven't beaten Cadets at finals since 1988. Haven't beaten Cadets at all since 1995. Haven't beaten Vanguard, Crown, Regiment or Bluecoats since 2005. Haven't beaten Regiment at finals since 1999. None of these corps view Madison as a rival. How is this acceptable to anyone? yet a beloved icon in Scouts history was director for part of this time...actually 2 were. so is it just the current administration or because they can't figure out how to be good without Malagaguena version 999,129,456,987,234? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Lancer Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 23 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: yet a beloved icon in Scouts history was director for part of this time...actually 2 were. so is it just the current administration or because they can't figure out how to be good without Malagaguena version 999,129,456,987,234? Still like Muchachos version the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 8 hours ago, Jurassic Lancer said: Still like Muchachos version the best. Incoming 💣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Sorry, THIS is best version... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironlips Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Mello Dude said: Sorry, THIS is best version... No question. Consider this: some of these folks are grandparents today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, ironlips said: No question. Consider this: some of these folks are grandparents today. Well one of the contra players marched with Jim in Kilties so he was already in his forties by then 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 13 hours ago, ironlips said: My advice to them is to avoid repeating policies that are not working. This. I mean this and design decisions. My God, just copy someone else's blue print. We see good designs, use that good design and a base and make it your own. We see corps using similiar props and show construction. It's not rocket science. While I do not think it's easy to design a show, not by a long stretch, DCI steals from Bands of America all the time. Take something that was done well in BOA and do it in DCI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 13 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: Malagaguena version 999,129,456,987,234? As someone who played it for a whole year and loved playing it, Madison should not do this again for the next 30-50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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