Jeff Ream Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 or, change your charter that says your for the betterment of the drum and bugle corps activity to those corps competing in Division I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixh Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Or maybe we all see what we want to see?No intended sarcasm at all, Felix. I use caps to inflect online and am VERY careful about my choice of words to make my point. It's easier to use caps to emphasize one word than to type in the code for bold or italics and then close it. As for my choice of words -- sorry you don't recognize a little salty humor.. You're about the only one I've heard from who doesn't "get" my humor -- so hey guys, if you're out there and you don't get my humor or you don't like it.. PM me and I'll be happy to explain. Additionally, I made no such insinuation. I said previously in this same discussion that TIME IS MONEY on National TV -- that's why shows get sponsors and commercials get aired in the middle of your favorite programs.. in context to that complete statement (that time is money and then subsequently asking why DCI should waste a moment of their airtime -- bought and paid for by DCI), there is no insinuation at all. I am asking a legitimate question. Again.. would Ford give Honda even a slight mention in their program about the hybrid technology? If you said yes, sorry.. guess again. Here's an illustration for you. Let's say you win the lottery, Felix. $117 million smackeroos and after the government gets their share and the lottery commission doles out yours, well.. you and I are both drum corps fans.. for slightly different reasons, but we're BASICALLY the same thing.. so.. You should give me some of your lottery winnings, just because we're both DC fans. How's that sound to you? I have a bunch of friends who also think you should.. and they are going to give lots of arguably good reasons why you should... and they're going to come on DCP and demand that it's "the right thing to do" and every thread that ever gets started by or involves you will eventually be driven in the direction of a conversation about why you won't give me some of your lottery winnings. Is that fair? Is that the way it should work? Regardless of if you're the type to share your wealth with strangers, it is not fair and is not the way it should work. I'm sure you can agree the suggestion of it is completely absurd! I am a senior corps fan, myself. I marched three years there, too and I NEVER marched juniors.. I do see the benefit in both activity segments but the businesswoman in me cannot accept this expectation of a "free lunch" that some of the senior sect seem to feel they should get. DCI bought the airtime. It's theirs. NOT yours. NOT the activity's. NOT anyone's but theirs. They could decide to host a puppy and kitten fashion show with it.. but it's THEIRS. Whatever they decide to do with it.. it's their call. You can howl and tear your hair and gnash your teeth all you want but the end of this conversation will always be that it's DCI's airtime to fill up with whatever they decide is going to be best for DCI and the DCI corps. If two words get ommitted that could vaguely indicate that there's more to the drum corps idiom than DCI top 12 junior corps, oh well. Raise the money, buy your own airtime and tell us all about how DCA and all-age/senior/alumni corps are blanketing the earth with their own brand of over 21 goodness. Stef I guess my idea of humor is totally different than yours. I can honestly say that I disagree with just about eveything you mentioned. I guess you are right when you say you are speaking from a businesswomans perspective, because it is reflected in every example and illustration you used. Maybe I see drum corps from more of a working man's perspective...sort of a labor/ management struggle (I spent years as a union organizer and representative so you know where I'm going.... :P ...it' is evident in your choice of words..."entitlements".."time is money"....your "lottery" illustration....maybe I am way off here and this is not the drum corps I grew to love in my youth.....drum corps has changed in big ways.....I here it in the words of many alumnis and seniors (except for the usual defenders)....I am sorry, but for me when the focus of drum corps...I did say FOCUS becomes how they can make a quick buck, instead of being an ambassador of goodwill to all drum corps organizations, then it is indeed sad as I stated earlier....you had some pretty solid arguments there, many were exaggerated and you also used some bad examples like the Honda/Ford comparison.... I guess I am looking for different answers and don't see this as DCI's view....I would still gladly have a beer with you after finals in 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixh Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) "DCI bought the airtime. It's theirs. NOT yours. NOT the activity's. NOT anyone's but theirs. They could decide to host a puppy and kitten fashion show with it.. but it's THEIRS. Whatever they decide to do with it.. it's their call. You can howl and tear your hair and gnash your teeth all you want but the end of this conversation will always be that it's DCI's airtime to fill up with whatever they decide is going to be best for DCI and the DCI corps. If two words get ommitted that could vaguely indicate that there's more to the drum corps idiom than DCI top 12 junior corps, oh well. Raise the money, buy your own airtime and tell us all about how DCA and all-age/senior/alumni corps are blanketing the earth with their own brand of over 21 goodness."Wow Stef, I don't know who you are adressing here with this last paragraph, but I never said that I felt this way....I'm sure you are great at being a businesswoman....and I agree it is DCI's money and they can use it however they want....you can bet, and I can promise you that I will never "howl and tear your hair and gnash your teeth".....I was just stating that yes we definitely see drum corps from different perspectives, and it is not what I want to see,...it is what I see!....that was a good waste of emotion IMO Edited October 27, 2005 by felixh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyivan Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 i think this in fighting between the two groups(granted i've only seen very little of it. but from what i am reading there is alot of it going on) is more hurtful to the activity as a whole. more so than DCI saying "you're done at 21", or members from DCA corps saying things against DCI. because i know if i were looking at this activity for the first time and saw that two of the biggest bodies of the actvity were fighting each other. i would see it as an activity that wasn't going to last very long. thing is to a point DCA needs DCI and DCI needs DCA. i really think it would be nice to see the drum corp world being broken up into two basic groups of junior and senior/all age. and seen as just drum corps. all age doesn't need the reputation of being a group that argues against junior. it needs to be be shown as an alternative to junior corp. either as a way to build your skills up to go into junior corp, because there are alot of people who are doing that. i have a friend i marched with in mon valley express. he didn't know how to play anything untill me and another friend basicly "drafted" him and he ended up trying out for cap reg's pitt. and he made it. and now we have a horn player and a bass tring out for crossmen this year. also it is a good way to still march if you don't have the money to devote to a junior corp, or the time to give to a full summer tour. all age alows you work, goto school in the summr, go on vaction , spend time with your family. or if your a good player but not good enough to make it in a line in a junior corp there is all age. and DCA really needs to sale that point as does the members of DCA/alumni corps. Bt junior corp shouldn't be lashing back at all age because of comments. junior corp is there for the people who are able and willing to deal out the time and money to do that. and thats great. but they shouldn't lash back when someone feels jelted because of a comment being made about your marching life ends at 21 because that doesn't make them better. it throws an ugly stain on junior corp. just like lashing out at someone saying you're done at 21 not being right because there is all age and alumni. and i think this artical was a good step in the right direction. to show that there is life after DCI. and that for anyone looking around on DCI's web page that wanted to see if there was a way to march after 21 that they got pointed in the right direction. but for all age/alumni members to go after a statment on tv, and then for DCI supporters to attack back doesn't only leave an ugly mark on all age. it leaves an ugly mark on both groups. and like i said if i didn't know what either were, and only saw the ESPN broadcast then ran across something like this where the two groups were throwing stones at each other. where one group says it's wrong that the comment was made and the other group is saying that it's just like senior corp to whine about things and for DCA to what to hold on to DCI's coattails. the two groups should try to work something out where they can take the junior and all age corps and have more shows where they can compete against each other. instead of a coupple shows a year. and maby some sort of championship like competition where the best of each group can face off. but the infighting needs to be brought to an end. because all it will do is hurt the activity as a whole. and i have seen and been part of a all age corp recruiting booth at a DCI show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontwan2know Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 The current reality of the relationship between the two organizations doesn't seem too bad, really. Certainly the best it's been in the past few decades. It's going to take time for that reality to penetrate and resonate with all the various participants, though. Twenty or thirty years of bad blood is not going to be mitigated overnight. Progress is a halting, painful process sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) I don't think people are concerned about DCI not mentioning DCA during their ESPN broadcast. What folks are concerned about is the statement that "Your drum corps career is over at age 21" This is a bit misleading at best....... Yup.... And I do think it's a minor point, but it's time to bury it for good. Hate to keep repeating myself but still can't believe that DCI with it's (good) reputation to uphold has allowed misleading statements for 25+ years now. Yeah, it's their tetlecast and $$$$$ but it's also their reputation. NOPE !!! DCA should put up some cash if they want some exposure during a DCI broadcast of this type..... Agree, but I was thinking last night what would be the reaction is DCA had an ad early in the telecast and viewers heard. Rondo: "... after 21 that's it for the members. Now time for a commercial" Ad: "DCA... Drum Corps doesn't have to end at 21... And some corps allow under 21 year olds to join...." Edited October 27, 2005 by JimF-xWSMBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 now, do I think DCA should get more visible at DCI events? sure. but will the price to play on DCI's terms be more than DCA is ready to bear yet? FWIW.... I think there was a DCA banner hanging along the back fence with the other banners at the DCI East show I attended. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I am sorry, but for me when the focus of drum corps...I did say FOCUS becomes how they can make a quick buck, instead of being an ambassador of goodwill to all drum corps organizations, then it is indeed sad as I stated earlier.... Just curious.... DCI paid to have that show aired...how are they trying to make a "quick buck" out of it? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 i think this in fighting between the two groups(granted i've only seen very little of it. but from what i am reading there is alot of it going on) is more hurtful to the activity as a whole. more so than DCI saying "you're done at 21", or members from DCA corps saying things against DCI. because i know if i were looking at this activity for the first time and saw that two of the biggest bodies of the actvity were fighting each other. i would see it as an activity that wasn't going to last very long. thing is to a point DCA needs DCI and DCI needs DCA. i really think it would be nice to see the drum corp world being broken up into two basic groups of junior and senior/all age. and seen as just drum corps. Actually, I don't think the actual organizations are fighting at all...it's people in these forums raising mountains of issues out of any little perceived slight, be it on one side or the other. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 The current reality of the relationship between the two organizations doesn't seem too bad, really. Certainly the best it's been in the past few decades.It's going to take time for that reality to penetrate and resonate with all the various participants, though. Twenty or thirty years of bad blood is not going to be mitigated overnight. Progress is a halting, painful process sometimes. yes you're right, and IMO, most of the negativity is actually geared at the on field product more than anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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