felixh Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Read a little further back, Felix. It wasn't Jim who was the first to turn us in that direction.. he's just the one that's been most active in the discussion since then. Stef Ok, but maybe it's just me...we are all guilty of going off on a whim at times....I have seen everyone here do it including myself....but it just seems a little over-sensitive to me....what is wrong with a little negativity, as long as there are no personal attacks or vulgarity....sorry, that's probably another thread :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Read a little further back, Felix. It wasn't Jim who was the first to turn us in that direction.. he's just the one that's been most active in the discussion since then. Stef And I admit to "gasket blowing" in one post so I ain't 100% clean either. Ironic thing is I went to the same college as that the person who first brought this up and live about 20-25 miles away (but have never met). And jeffsnewjetta and I live about 5-10 miles away and we all know Jeffs feelings on DCI matters. ####### Central Pennsylvanians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScribeToo Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Ok, but maybe it's just me...we are all guilty of going off on a whim at times....I have seen everyone here do it including myself....but it just seems a little over-sensitive to me....what is wrong with a little negativity, as long as there are no personal attacks or vulgarity....sorry, that's probably another thread :P IMO, even "a little negativity" is destructive, Felix. Destructive is the opposite of CONstructive and if we are trying to build the WHOLE activity then ANY negativity would be counterproductive to our common desires. Be negative all you want but don't be naive enough to expect people will leave it unresponded. My problem with the whole thing is I don't understand why people seem to think DCI would waste a MOMENT of their airtime on anything not related to DCI Junior Drum Corps. In what alternate universe would ANY company do such a thing (i.e. my Ford/Honda comments earlier)? Even in passing? Even if it's TWO WORDS.. Why would they dilute their market potential in any way?? And in what additional alternate universe would they make any verbiage concessions AT ALL? Does any other segment of the activity pitch in for ANY of that airtime? No! They can say what they want about their organization and the corps under their umbrellas in whatever way they see fit! Stef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixh Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 IMO, even "a little negativity" is destructive, Felix. Destructive is the opposite of CONstructive and if we are trying to build the WHOLE activity then ANY negativity would be counterproductive to our common desires.Be negative all you want but don't be naive enough to expect people will leave it unresponded. My problem with the whole thing is I don't understand why people seem to think DCI would waste a MOMENT of their airtime on anything not related to DCI Junior Drum Corps. In what alternate universe would ANY company do such a thing (i.e. my Ford/Honda comments earlier)? Even in passing? Even if it's TWO WORDS.. Why would they dilute their market potential in any way?? And in what additional alternate universe would they make any verbiage concessions AT ALL? Does any other segment of the activity pitch in for ANY of that airtime? No! They can say what they want about their organization and the corps under their umbrellas in whatever way they see fit! Stef Maybe that is the real problem here Stef. How does that type of attitude, which I am not convinced DCI is taking, contribute to the activity as a whole....and as far as negativity,...some can construe your reply as negative and a bit sarcastic (IMO) (use of caps, choice of words "what additional alternate universe"...things like that)....I am starting to feel that negativity here is selective, and that the folks that are the most negative are also the most sensitive....(IMO),...thats kind of sad......also to insinuate that DCA is a waste of time.....("I don't understand why people seem to think DCI would waste a MOMENT of their airtime on anything not related to DCI Junior Drum Corps")..can be construed as negative don't you think.....I guess we all see the world differently. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold_Bond Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) I hate to admit it but I actually agree with the "DCI is not obligated to promote DCA" sentiment. I also recall that DCI has had a booth at DCA. I am assuming that they paid DCA for the privilege? Edited October 27, 2005 by Gold_Bond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) I think this is a great point. All the time in the junior/senior debate, I hear people griping about DCI not mentioning DCA. Yet I never hear people suggesting the all-too-reasonable idea that DCA should have a hand of its own in the marketing of its product. It's as though people think DCA should be able to do nothing, yet still ride DCI's coattails. This despite the fact that it took hard work and smart decisions to get DCI where it is today, and no one has the right to benefit off of that work besides DCI itself. I don't think people are concerned about DCI not mentioning DCA during their ESPN broadcast. What folks are concerned about is the statement that "Your drum corps career is over at age 21" This is a bit misleading at best....... Do you think the ESPN broadcast was cheap? Heck, DCI basically bought a two hour chunk of prime time television, for their own personal use. Should DCA really get a chunk of that, just because they're part of the same activity? NOPE !!! DCA should put up some cash if they want some exposure during a DCI broadcast of this type..... The FRICTION !! I think what angers DCA and Alumni fans a bit is this noation that DCI is far superior and better in every way...... I think that a lot of folks who participate in and watch DCI corps ONLY would be a little suprised if they attened a DCA Championships weekend. More and more senior (All age) corps and alumni corps are hitting the field each season........the activity is growing Personally........I watch DCI, DCA and alumni corps (Even HS and college bands) and find something to enjoy with all of them. That is the mark of a true fan....IMO Triple Forte Edited October 27, 2005 by Triple Forte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 And Jim, my problem is that we can't even BRUSH GENTLY PAST a conversation about this without the "sense of entitlement" senior people jumping in to complain about something ELSE that DCI is doing them wrong by.. (i.e., this article in question is brought up as a discussion and it took.. what.. five posts for someone to come on and whine about how DCI says "all the time" - iow, one time on the broadcast each season - that "your career is over at 21". That comment is worded exactly that way because it's a -- get ready kids, this is a big word -- sound-byte.. a catchy, phrase-like statement that keeps the flow of the dialogue going. Do you also have a problem with Gillette saying "Gillette - the best a man can get" when clearly a man can probably get better? Sound-byte. Get it?)The DCI Broadcast is not a documentary. How about this.. WE all know about DCA and most senior corps now also perform at DCI shows throughout the summer.. so howsabout we get people to DCI shows (however we get them there) and they can find out about ALL that drum corps has to offer while they're there?? I sincerely doubt that a MINOR COMMENT like "your career is over at 21" is going to discourage people from going to shows if they're inclined to be interested in this.. the only people who even pick up on it are the OVER 21 people who are totally gung-ho about senior corps. Why do we have to bombard the audience of a broadcast with every tidbit of information there is out there? The broadcast is a TEASER. It's to TEASE people with just enough information to get them to want to learn more on their own.. if we load them up with information, then they'll say, "Okay.. I know everything there is to know about it.. there are no more surprises.. I don't need to pursue it any further." That would make our broadcasts into documentaries. So let me say again.. howsabout we get people TO THE SHOWS and let them find out about all the rest of what drum corps has to offer while they're there? How cool is it to go to something expecting one thing and discover so much more while you're there?! Sheesh you guys. Stef i'd say it's a minor comment along the lines of "reliving your youth" why do i say that? because, when you look at DCA, youth is a bigger part than ever. I'd say you have maybe 30-40% of DCA members who are DCI age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Did anyone ever watch the telecast pretending that you know nothing about corps (IOW the target audience) and afterwards try to image what DC is about? Last time I tried it I came away with the idea that there are only 12 Drum Corps in existence because "This is Drum Corps". No mention of Div II/III, no mention of a 13th corps (at least the last time I watched). There are only 12 corps with a total of (12 times 135) openings each year nation wide. To the initiated, the top 12 are not a "segment of the activity", they ARE the activity because "this is Drum Corps". I still get the idea that DCI forgets the make up of it's target audience when the scripts are handed out. I did watch it that way, because i knew the hype/bashing/applause that would come up after it aired. I thought DCI did a great job...promoting Division I. However, if I never knew a thing about drum corps, or I knew the little bit we may have seen vidoes of at band, i would have walked away feeling outside of DI and being over 22, there was nothing else out there. and Since I know what DCI wanted to get out of the broadcast, I think they did a great job in getting that message out there. what it all boils down to is yes, DCI paid to air it, then can show and say what they want. But, when people get critical for the statements that aren't 100% true about the drum corps activity..which, IMO DI was advertised to be....then, critical feedback should be allowed. just like politicis when people complain about half truths etc...same thing here. now, do I think DCA should get more visible at DCI events? sure. but will the price to play on DCI's terms be more than DCA is ready to bear yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 And I admit to "gasket blowing" in one post so I ain't 100% clean either. Ironic thing is I went to the same college as that the person who first brought this up and live about 20-25 miles away (but have never met). And jeffsnewjetta and I live about 5-10 miles away and we all know Jeffs feelings on DCI matters. ####### Central Pennsylvanians. minus one stupid rules change, i actually thingk DCI is doing a lot of things right actually. i just can't hear em all over the stupid rules change :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScribeToo Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Maybe that is the real problem here Stef. How does that type of attitude, which I am not convinced DCI is taking, contribute to the activity as a whole....and as far as negativity,...some can construe your reply as negative and a bit sarcastic (IMO) (use of caps, choice of words "what additional alternate universe"...things like that)....I am starting to feel that negativity here is selective, and that the folks that are the most negative are also the most sensitive....(IMO),...thats kind of sad......also to insinuate that DCA is a waste of time.....("I don't understand why people seem to think DCI would waste a MOMENT of their airtime on anything not related to DCI Junior Drum Corps")..can be construed as negative don't you think.....I guess we all see the world differently. B) Or maybe we all see what we want to see? No intended sarcasm at all, Felix. I use caps to inflect online and am VERY careful about my choice of words to make my point. It's easier to use caps to emphasize one word than to type in the code for bold or italics and then close it. As for my choice of words -- sorry you don't recognize a little salty humor.. You're about the only one I've heard from who doesn't "get" my humor -- so hey guys, if you're out there and you don't get my humor or you don't like it.. PM me and I'll be happy to explain. Additionally, I made no such insinuation. I said previously in this same discussion that TIME IS MONEY on National TV -- that's why shows get sponsors and commercials get aired in the middle of your favorite programs.. in context to that complete statement (that time is money and then subsequently asking why DCI should waste a moment of their airtime -- bought and paid for by DCI), there is no insinuation at all. I am asking a legitimate question. Again.. would Ford give Honda even a slight mention in their program about the hybrid technology? If you said yes, sorry.. guess again. Here's an illustration for you. Let's say you win the lottery, Felix. $117 million smackeroos and after the government gets their share and the lottery commission doles out yours, well.. you and I are both drum corps fans.. for slightly different reasons, but we're BASICALLY the same thing.. so.. You should give me some of your lottery winnings, just because we're both DC fans. How's that sound to you? I have a bunch of friends who also think you should.. and they are going to give lots of arguably good reasons why you should... and they're going to come on DCP and demand that it's "the right thing to do" and every thread that ever gets started by or involves you will eventually be driven in the direction of a conversation about why you won't give me some of your lottery winnings. Is that fair? Is that the way it should work? Regardless of if you're the type to share your wealth with strangers, it is not fair and is not the way it should work. I'm sure you can agree the suggestion of it is completely absurd! I am a senior corps fan, myself. I marched three years there, too and I NEVER marched juniors.. I do see the benefit in both activity segments but the businesswoman in me cannot accept this expectation of a "free lunch" that some of the senior sect seem to feel they should get. DCI bought the airtime. It's theirs. NOT yours. NOT the activity's. NOT anyone's but theirs. They could decide to host a puppy and kitten fashion show with it.. but it's THEIRS. Whatever they decide to do with it.. it's their call. You can howl and tear your hair and gnash your teeth all you want but the end of this conversation will always be that it's DCI's airtime to fill up with whatever they decide is going to be best for DCI and the DCI corps. If two words get ommitted that could vaguely indicate that there's more to the drum corps idiom than DCI top 12 junior corps, oh well. Raise the money, buy your own airtime and tell us all about how DCA and all-age/senior/alumni corps are blanketing the earth with their own brand of over 21 goodness. Stef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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