JimF-LowBari Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Oh boy does that bring back memories! We had a brass intructor one time, who's name is still well known in Drum Corps circles, and we had a bad habit of getting hit for "overblowing". He would say "Yeah yeah we've gotta do something about that" then two minutes later he would scream "PLAY THOSE ******* HORNS!" LOL, we had a few people people who never got the memo on not overblowing. One played the same part I did, was even shorter and marched near me. Always thought I'd catch Hades over his blasting (nickname was Barnsie the Blaster) until someone told me: "We wait until the concert standstill and watch. If it's him, his pulls his shoulders back so hard we're waiting for him to fall over backwards.". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) I appreciate the treatise previously posted on the aspects of the instruments. It seems build quality and design, as I thought, has a lot to do with the equation, and I think that's been the main issue with the bugle. We did worry about tuning in '79, Jim, just not emphasized. Ray's warm-ups were designed to force you to play in tune and adjust whether anyone realized it or not. Rehearsal was more trying to play the parts right a lot of the time and making changes. I would say that given the backgrounds of some of us in the bari section at least, esp. the trombone background people- they listened by habit. As a Euphonium player and someone learning t-bone at the time, I listened. Ubnless you play a compensating Euphonium, and I don't, you'd better adjust, or else. There were times you just knew certain notes on those junky ultratones were bad and you adjusted for it. I still want one of them for certain reasons, they had their advantages, actually, but they were easy to overblow, VERY easy. But I know I can make them sounds somewhat decent, just takes some thinking and listening. Compared to my YEP-321S, no contest in terms of musicality and response, but then again, the bugle is an outdoor instrument. Edited March 24, 2012 by BigW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Thanks BigW being 4 hours away at college and no car, all I saw of the corps until end of class was a few camps at Ship U. Memories are blending together but either caught a ride with two othe WSM members (Doug Dolan - midvoice, Andy Sgrignoli - sop) or took the bus (8.5 hr with 10 or so local stops). Just a rough year with December graduation coming up. Was still learning the new music the first few shows and just can't remember much else about Rays methods. But by then everyone else was probably familiar with them and the reasoning behimd them. Weird thing is I can remember a lot of Dave being with us at sectionals but not Ray with the whole horn line.... Edit: I can remember Dave being with "YOU MONKEYS!" For eveyone else, that was Daves favorite term when he was telling us we either screwed up or surprised him in a good way. Guy knew that we were busting our humps to improve so why chew us out. He let us know when there was a problem and then we worked on it without the wasted effort and time yelling back and forth. We had a mix of guys who could really play outside of corps, music majors and guys like me who knew no music theory so would just ask "How do ya want me to play that" and listen to how Dave would sing the part. Main thing was we were a bunch of "self starters" and felt like Dave respected that and knew how to get what he wanted from us. s/ One of Daves Monkeys.... Edited March 25, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I feel like it's good to have a tuner nearby... but some people rely on them way too much. Agreed. the tuner is a useful tool, but by no means should it be regarded the panacea/be-all-end-all. Learn to use your ears. And as an educator we have to help develop those ears. Practice with a tuner. Work on your aural skills. Singing warm-up chorals as a band is great. Maybe tune chords by singing then playing. If you can sing it, that means you can hear it which means you can play it Yes. My band kids all know the routine: [director says] "to play in tune, you have to..." [kids answer] "hear in tune." To that end we sing and hum (a great tool, it kinda puts the sound right into the bones of your ear) scales, intervals and chords on a regular basis. Still has nothing to do with a g horn being a bugle or not, lol. Hahahaha, lol. Regards, Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Well,I still remember those old paper music folders that music stores would give out to bands for free that had the pic of Fennell inside and some of his maxims. And in huge letters above his head, "LISTEN".... not "USE A TUNER!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossop Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I can understand people liking the G sound. I can understand people feeling corps should have (or should - in the case of DCA) remain with hornlines pitched in G. I can understand people thinking G made us unique - that G represents (at least recent) tradition. However - why do people constantly say "if it ain't G - it ain't a Bugle, it's a band, etc." Now - reason why I ask this: Bugles didn't start in G. Corps didn't start in G. Bugles in keys other than G have been used for decades by "corps" - esp some older-style alumni units - etc the word "bugle" as we've been using it in drum corps seems to me to have long meant "bell front brass horn, no slides" - that's the only definition that is really honest to the entire history of our activity. Heck - we all know - real "bugles" have no valves. Real "bugles" weren't originally pitched in G. "Drum Corps" didn't start pitched in G. But in drum corps land -- why, why, why do people call Bb pitched Drum Corps "bands" as if the G is what actually MADE something a bugle. I just don't get it (and probably never will) since "G" never made something a "bugle" in the first place. (*and my point here isn't to argue about G vs. Bb - that's been done - I guess my point is to discuss the rational or logic behind people's reasoning on this issue) So? I competed as a youth with the single valve/slide key of G bugle. Our instructors told stories of earlier days when judges didn't know what to do when horns appeared with these "new-fangled slides". In joining an alumni corps in 1991, I quickly went from a valve/rotor, to a 2 valved, and then to a 3 valved horn, all in the key of G. I always considered these to be bugles because of the key. I enjoyed being able to play more notes in the lower octave that earlier bugles didn't allow. The first time I attended a DCI show in which the corps played B flats, I went there expecting, and probably hoping that I wouldn't like it. To be honest, the Blue Devils blew me away and I honestly couldn't tell the difference. I wonder how many drum corps fans who say they can discriminate between the volume, the timbre, etc. could really tell the difference in a blind test. For tradition, I prefer the G horns, and I like them to be called sopanos, contra bass, etc. But for the actual sound, a great corps playing in either key works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I competed as a youth with the single valve/slide key of G bugle. Our instructors told stories of earlier days when judges didn't know what to do when horns appeared with these "new-fangled slides". In joining an alumni corps in 1991, I quickly went from a valve/rotor, to a 2 valved, and then to a 3 valved horn, all in the key of G. I always considered these to be bugles because of the key. I enjoyed being able to play more notes in the lower octave that earlier bugles didn't allow. The first time I attended a DCI show in which the corps played B flats, I went there expecting, and probably hoping that I wouldn't like it. To be honest, the Blue Devils blew me away and I honestly couldn't tell the difference. I wonder how many drum corps fans who say they can discriminate between the volume, the timbre, etc. could really tell the difference in a blind test. For tradition, I prefer the G horns, and I like them to be called sopanos, contra bass, etc. But for the actual sound, a great corps playing in either key works for me. I can tell the difference. The overtone series on alto trumpets(sops)is most telling of all. Standing IN or directly in front of the horn arc at max volume, pretty close. Then stand 40 yards away..no contest the G's carry MUCH better. You simply cannot take away that extra tubing making the difference in the sound. Tell you what, don't believe me, get some horns and get a db meter. I have done this test and I can say for certain that G's are louder esp the 2 valve Kanstul Powerbores. Again, the change to Bb was for economic reasons, not sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I can tell the difference. The overtone series on alto trumpets(sops)is most telling of all. Please define "overtone series," and explain what it has to do with standing in front of a horn arc at close range and at 40 yards with regard to volume/projection. Peace, Fred O. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Please define "overtone series," and explain what it has to do with standing in front of a horn arc at close range and at 40 yards with regard to volume/projection. Peace, Fred O. The first statement was clearly in response to not being able to tell the difference between G and Bb as was stated in the quoted text. This is an excellent explanation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtone Please explain the context of your question quoting me out of context. Peace, Mello Dude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocko the Wonder Llama Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 'Cause "buBble" doesn't roll off the tounge as easily as "buGle"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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