Your thoughts on DCA corps going to B flat horns?

[Kamarag]

I just hope that the judges realize this and give corps on G horns credit for the hard work being done to make a G line sound as in tune as any Bb/F line. It did not happen that way in the junior corps circuit. In that circuit, corps were basically told that G horns would hold them back competitively.

Chris, do you really believe that? You want judges to give credit for the actual equipment used?

At first glance, it seems reasonable, but after some thought I'm not sure...I'd rather see a G and a Bb line compare directly *without* consideration for the key or brand of equipment they use. Only the sound produced should be judges (musically, at least).

You want props for playing in G, but you don't want Bb corps to get those same props? Are you sure about that?

[Kamarag]

The story that is going around is that the DCA corps that initially switched to Bb did so because the instrument manufactureres gave them a set of horns for free. If this is true, it seems that the activity is being driven by the bottom line. The sad part is that other DCA corps (like DCI) will be forced to switch just to stay competitive in the eyes of the judges.

Well, in Reading's case, I can assure you that the corps paid for it's Dynasty equipment. The way it was explained to the members of the corps, Dynasty gave the Bucs a really sweet package deal, but you're still talking about many, many thousands of dollars.

[Fran Haring]

It's All COOL!!!!

I hear ya.

As long as corps still produce that "drum corps sound" I'm not sure I care whether it's Bb, G, X, Y or Z. That's up to the individual corps to decide which is best for their organization.

In 2006, I plan to announce some shows in G and others in Bb, just to see if I can notice a difference. :P

Fran

[gdisney]

Our line is in G - except for our 4 valve B-flat tubas. Why? We were quoted many thousands of dollars more and 6 months longer production time to make G contras.

[Austin Stars]

Good thread.

[MiniSopGuy]

1) The members coming in from bands wouldn't have to adjust to the change in pitch. (Agree, but barely.)

I know you said "Agree but barely", but the adjusting to the change in pitch doesnt hold water. I know we are all drum corps junkies here, but hasnt anyone ever played in an orchestra or wind ensemble? How hard was it really to switch for a different rehearsal to pick up a G horn after playing a Bb or F horn a few days earlier. It takes about 10 seconds. And how about playing trumpet in an orchestra or wind ensemble. If it is so hard to adjust for the different keyed horn, why is it that trumpet players could do a gig where you would play one song on Bb another on C and then another on Eb?

As for judging or giving credit to those playing on G horns, I could be wrong, but the way I took that was to not penalize those playing on G because of the different timbre. The last comment I would ever want to here from a judge is that "You need to try for a fatter sound like the Bb corps get". This is basically what happened in DCI and why they went Bb. Someone else said it, to stay competitive in DCI, you had to change to Bb. I hope we never have judges that are so narrow minded that they cant judge you for what you do and not allow their personal preference for Bb or G enter into the scoring factor.

I know this is a little outside the topic because I can not speak for any corp in particular, but my preference is for G on the field, I like the sound. I will keep my Bb, Eb, C and D horns in the concert hall.

Edited November 17, 2005 by MiniSopGuy

[Todd Tanji]

From a sop/trumpet perspective:

Trumpets slots tighter than G's. That means that besides ease of tuning, it's easier to play technical

licks. Much easier in my opinion. I can tongue and do fast valve work far better on a trumpet. When I

listen to a G sop player doing technical things it sounds like they are struggling with the instrument.

However,

while it is easier to play higher on a trumpet, the G's have a very bright, open screaming sound way up

there in the stratosphere. When I listened to the Renegades (the best sounding G line around) their

double C's sounded higher than they really were. VERY effective! If they played trumpets I don't think

their double C's would be any more musically effective even though they would be a minor third higher.

I doesn't hurt to have McFarland around either. :)

So to me it's a matter of your style of playing.

[camel lips]

From a sop/trumpet perspective:

Trumpets slots tighter than G's. That means that besides ease of tuning, it's easier to play technical

licks. Much easier in my opinion. I can tongue and do fast valve work far better on a trumpet. When I

listen to a G sop player doing technical things it sounds like they are struggling with the instrument.

DING DING DING<<WE HAVE A WINNER.

You hit the nail on the head here.

As I have matured and my playing abilty has moved up the scale(no pun intended) I have found the same thing.

Try doing a trill on a sop and then do the same trill on a trumpet.There is a world of difference.The SOprano seems to go up two steps where with a trumpet you can do a trill with in one step.

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

Well, when Cabs first announced they were going Bb, I wrote this little ditty and then it sorta collected dust on my hard drive. I'm not sure if I posted it here before but here it is.

DISCLAIMER: I'm a guard chick. I dont' pretend to understand the difference between trying to do a trill on a trumpet vs. a G horn. I'm merely speaking from a spectator p.o.v. and readily accept I could be completely wrong. Don't be afraid to call "Balderdash" on me.

I titled it, appropriately, "Kenny Bb". :P

For a while there, when it was first happening, the switch to Bb didn’t really effect me. It was during my “off the face of the planet” years when I had nothing to do with drum corps. I fell back on to the face of the drum corps planet back in 2002 when I joined Renegades mid-season. After my five year hiatus, I had a lot of catching up to do with old friends, and subsequently spent more time in the parking lots at shows than I did in the stands. I thought the whole Bb thing was a tool the old school used to beat up on the new school and vice versa, as to what “real drum corps” is. It wasn’t till the summer of 2003 that I went to a show, as a spectator, with a friend of mine. Even amongst the best hornlines, I was waiting for that moment. You know the moment. The “holy ####” moment. That moment when the hornline comes together and hits you with that wall of sound. It never happened. Not once. Not even in a “Well, It’s still pretty early in the season” sort of way. I then thought I was doing what I’ve accused most people who have been around the activity seem to do: remembering it better than it really was. After the show, we got into his car and he played a recording of Blue Devils from 1978. There were “Oh ####” moments all over the place. And I’m not talking about playing loud for the sake of playing loud, at the cost of good tonality. Playing ####### loud and making your hair stand up on end….making you feel like the horn line handed you your ###, shook your hand and sent you along your way.

However, there is an element of “remembering it better than it really was” in all of us old fogies. Surely, there were plenty of hornlines “back in the day” –so screechy, out of tune and playing beyond their range, they sound like a bag of cats being hit with a bat. Then there were those, the small handful, the ones that always came in on top, that had instructors that were knowledgeable enough to know how to pull that GOOD loud sound from the horns.

Now, I’m “just a guard chick”….but I can liken this switch to Bb to guards going from the militaristic precision, to a more artful interpretation of the music being played. (This coming from a gal who got her color guard career started wearing the wool skirts, bulky white boots and doing sharp box angles to a beautiful ballad.) I prefer what today’s color guard does to the old way. That’s just my bag, baby. ($1 to Austin Powers). I do have an appreciation for the precision and dedication the old school guard had. They could give you plenty of “Oh ####” moments without ever picking up a horn. However, I was there…. And I remember there was plenty of guards “back in the day” that were dirty – lacking any precision or dedication. Then there were the handful, the ones that finished on top that had dedicated guard instructors that KNEW how to clean work. They put the extra effort in.

Similarly today, what passes for “clean” in most guards today wouldn’t even pass for dirty back then. But having taught in many of the schools around the SF Bay area from 1990 to today, I’ve met a lot of instructors. I’ve taught with them and performed in various guards with them. I’ve watched them teach their guards, sloppy as ####, and hear them say “Great. Let’s move on”. But there’s a handful out there, the ones that finish on top, that take the extra time and effort to say “One more time.”

In a round about way, I think I’m saying that it doesn’t matter if the Caballeros play in Bb, G, or LMNOP. I’m going to trust [insert some horn instructors names here] to have the knowledge, and the fortitude to say “One more time”. And give us “Oh ####” moments all over the place just like they always do. I think it’s possible.

In closing, we’re at an interesting time in all of drum corps. Juniors, Seniors, alumni alike. We each have a responsibility, a stake in making sure drum corps not only continues to live, not only continues to learn from their past and most importantly, isn’t afraid to strike out and try something new. Even if they fail.

Being afraid to fail would have kept us in the dark instead of having electricity. Being afraid to fail would have kept us on the Earth instead of in planes and exploring God’s great infinity. Change for the sake of change itself is never a good thing. But as Albert Einstein said “Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new”.

I’ll be the first to admit, some of the changes going on in drum corps appear at first glance to be a bit misguided. It seems that there are folks in control that are doing little to no forward thinking. There are also a good many afraid to put their toe in the cold water and give it a try. Doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result. I don’t believe the damage done, if there will be any, will be irreparable. Especially with so many of us that are dedicated to the idea of drum corps. There are those out there working in the activity that are willing to stick their necks out. Try something new…and hopefully say “One more time”.

[goalieguy]

DING DING DING<<WE HAVE A WINNER.

You hit the nail on the head here.

As I have matured and my playing abilty has moved up the scale(no pun intended) I have found the same thing.

Try doing a trill on a sop and then do the same trill on a trumpet.There is a world of difference.The SOprano seems to go up two steps where with a trumpet you can do a trill with in one step.

Hey Ed:

You're actually going to listen to a guy who hasn't played a bugle since 1982? Pleeeeeease!

Todd wouldn't know the difference if it came up and bit him in the posterior.

JUST KIDDING!!! But Todd already knows that from me!

Ed, He DOES know his stuff! I'm honored to call him a friend and former horn line member (and Instructor...and Arranger)...Ain't I the suck-up?

:P

Pat