Your thoughts on DCA corps going to B flat horns?

[Todd Tanji]

You're actually going to listen to a guy who hasn't played a bugle since 1982? Pleeeeeease!

Todd wouldn't know the difference if it came up and bit him in the posterior.

And we were so stupid they didn't even trust us with three valves back then!!!

Furthermore,

a horn line that is distorted can seem louder than a more pure, in-tune horn line. That

is a subjective effect. I recently bought a very good audio system and when I first listened to it I didn't

realize how loud I had it cranked until I tried talking to someone and couldn't even hear myself! Clean

is more "pleasant" sounding. It's a different effect from distorted.

Compare a great horn line of the 70's like Madison '75 to the sound that Phantom got this year. Both were

quite overwhelming ... but in a different way - sheer power vs. sheer brilliance. Take your pick. And I don't

think the Bucs rendition of Adagio for Strings would have been as effective on G's. That kind of impact

would be very difficult achieve without perfect tuning.

Edited November 17, 2005 by BDUFLS

[Jeff Ream]

The story that is going around is that the DCA corps that initially switched to Bb did so because the instrument manufactureres gave them a set of horns for free. If this is true, it seems that the activity is being driven by the bottom line. The sad part is that other DCA corps (like DCI) will be forced to switch just to stay competitive in the eyes of the judges.

the story is false.

even some big name DCI corps pay for theirs.

[Jeff Ream]

In that case, what's your stance on kevlar v. mylar? :D

same feeling.

if you have kevlar boned way up to sound like a jam block, i detest it. luckily that fad is fading.

then again, i have heard mylar boned way too tight, as well as loose enough to make everything sound dirty even if it isn't.

it's all in the tuning and the quality of sound you produce.

[JohnZ]

Dunno - guess I still like the challenge of playing a G horn in tune and as technically clean as I can a Bb horn. Because when you do, it makes for a more exciting experience on either end of the horn.

IMO

[Kamarag]

One thing I will say on the subject of key vs difficulty...it's a lot easier to play loud on a G horn than it is on a Bb.

In direct contrast between the Dynasty G euph (in 2004) and the Dynasty Bb euph (in 2005), we found that it's more of a challenge to play at the extreme high-volume end of the horn with a good sound. Specifically in the middle register.

At first, I had thought it was just me, but after talking to other members of the hornline, many had noticed the same thing. It's easier to stay in tune, but more of a challenge to get that wide-open sound the Buccaneers strive for.

[CallipygianKing]

So, I just spent 3 years on a G Mellophone, my only 3 years as a horn player.

For one, Chops has already made the transition from Bb to G before. Top Chops Brassline started out (in 1994) as a separate parade unit (well, we still march parades sans drumline), and they were playing on the standard band horns that people brought with them (or whatever they could borrow... there's early video of Top Chops with trombones and sousaphones). It wasn't until the third year of the hornline (summer o' '96) that a new director pushed for the switch to G bugles.

As the story goes, Greg Hiniker (then Top Chops Director, now Chops board member and 2005 sop soloist) and Mike Mayer drove through a blizzard with money loaned last-minute from Pat Mayer (father of John and Mike, heading up the Govies and Chops respectively) to buy the hornline's first set of G's second-hand of off Star of Indiana. Of course, the switch to G bugles at that point made it that much easier for Chopstix and Top Chops to start competing in field shows in 1999 and (eventually... with patience and care) grow into the 2005 DCA Class A Champions that graced the field this year in Scranton. Quite a long way from the hawaiian shirts, but we still had some of them blizzard-horns on the field.

And now Chops is moving to Bb Yamahas.

For one, we're due for new horns... That original set from Star has been added to over the last ten years from (it seems) as many different sources. Only the baritones were purchased new, and that was five years ago. And the contras, as much as the players love them and rejected newer horns earlier this season just to keep them, are very much worse for wear. Sure, we take good care of the horns and we certainly don't let the mix-n-match nature of our instruments hold us back, but...

I guess we're going for the Yamahas because we've already had a half-sponsorship through them for the battery. So they're swinging us a deal. I'm no horn guru, so I'm not sure what to expect out of them. And, besides the resale stuff brought up before that was also mentioned, by going through Yamaha it's not like we can choose the key. They sell Bb horns for marching, and that's it.

But any full set of new horns, no matter the brand or key, is going to sound better and be easier to tune than the haphazard collection we've got.

[Mick Krackin']

Having played in and taught G Bugle lines for 20 years and now having taught the Buccaneers on Bb/F horns for just one year, I can say that I was extremely happy with the switch for many reasons.

*Much easier to tune the line. Many G lines play in tune, they just have to work harder to achieve it.

*Much more in tune with themselves. Many G bugles have this nasty tendency to be out of tune with themselves so that the player has to constantly adjust pitch on different partials. How many people have ever had to "split the difference" between your middle C and your top of the staff G on a soprano because the C was in tune but the G was 20 cents sharp? Bb/F's still have this problem, but to a much lesser degree.

*Puts the Mellophones in the middle voice between the trumpets and baritones. The G Mellos basically were 4th sopranos. They played in the same register minus the top range of the soprano. The F mello is truly in the middle range of the ensemble. It's the glue between the trumpets and baritones.

*Allows members to use their own instruments or their band instrument. This was very important to us last year for the first few camps when we had many more people than we did corps owned instruments. It was pretty funny to see huggable baritones and sousaphones in the line, but without them, people would have had to switch off and on throughout the rehearsal. Bb/F instruments allowed us to keep everyone playing all the time.

*While I agree the switch from Bb to G wasn't difficult after a few minutes of playing, it was just one more unfamiliar thing for a new member to deal with. Playing on an instrument they are already used to is a big relief for many people, especially younger people that might be a little intimidated walking into their first drum corps rehearsal. Many of us have been in drum corps too long to remember what that first day really was like. Many drum corps people are scary looking.

Now, after all of what I said above, the most important thing is what you put into the mouthpiece. As Dr. Gary Bird likes to tell his tuba and euphonium students, "If you put sh*^ into the mouthpiece, what do you expect is going to come out of the bell?!?" This holds true no matter what the key of instrument you play.

[camel lips]

this thread is heading in the right direction.Please keep the responces coming.

[elphaba01]

this thread is heading in the right direction.Please keep the responces coming.

"Keep it in "G"":

I believe it was no less a drum corps LEGEND than the late great Hy Drietzer that said (For the record actually): "You can put as many 'valve' on it as you want. Just keep it in "G". That's what gives DRUM CORPS" it's disticnctive sound" (Not to mention musical personality).

Very sad that the "Activity" choses not to listen to it's greatest "Music Writer" ever.....

Elphaba

WWW

Edited November 18, 2005 by elphaba01

[G-horns]

Another reason was that new corps could borrow horns from local marching bands or have members bring in their own horns to play on, thus reducing instrument cost, at least in the short term.

You're right, Kevin. I forgot about that one. I wonder if it has ever happened.