Why can't The Cadets ( and other Drumcorps ) just be considered Ar

[felixh]

(Intially I was going to place this in the "Brace Yourselves...Cadets with Voice" thread, but I realized that this issue goes way beyond The Cadets constant push to the edge of infinity....)

Wow......I don't check this board that often, and by no means am I a DCP word of mouth Junkie, but I would have never thought that this thread about The Cadets 06 ballad with voice would have gotten this much attention. They are definitely the hottest topic in Drumcorps right now it seems.

I think everyone should chill out!!!! B) I URGE everyone to let The Cadets do what they do. Besides....... they ARE artist in their own right!!!!!!

The Cadets ( and any other Drumcorp for that matter ) are many things; one of which is a group of people who together make art. As an artist myself, I can say I would be ****ed before I ever let what someone WANTS to SEE OR WANTS to HEAR ultimately determine how I use my ability.

Ok....So.... lets speed up my point.... to make it simple.....my viewpoint as an artist is............If you don't like my art..........**** you!!!!

Yes, yes, yes.........I understand that fans support Drumcorps in many ways, one of which is financially. Yeah yeah yeah...... blah blah blah, but IMO, The currently marching corp members will always and forever be more important than everyone else. Fans and alumni included. I wouldn't march drumcorp for anyone else but myself. Never forget that you can have a Drumcorp without fans......but you can't have Drumcorp fans without a Drumcorp.

The fact is that true artist don't make things according to other people's desires. Artist make things because they think they shoud be made.

Once someone starts making things primarily according to others people's desires you know what he/she becomes?!?!?!?!?

AN ENTERTAINER........ who only exist for other people's amusement.

Drumcorp for me is much more than just entertainment for fans and alumni.

I read through some of these Cadets 06 Ballad Threads and I also came across some posts concerning other very questionable design decisions regarding some other corps programs. I started to laugh.......I was like.....ARE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE SERIOUS!?!?!?!?!? DO THEY REALLY THINK THEIR OPINIONS MATTER THAT MUCH?!?!?!

I think many people on this board who are hardcore about ANY belief they have about what drumcorps IS and SHOULD BE are gravelly mistaken in their logic. You can think anything you want and YOU SHOULD. Go right a head. But I say to you don't just assume that the Fans and Alumni are priority #1.......They're not.

IMO.....FANS and Alumni and vastly secondary!!!!!......some might not want to believe this but it's true. Drumcorps IMO will never and should never do whatever the fans and alumni demand that they do.

( OH and trust me do they demand!......especially the Ol' school alumni...NOT all of them, but many of them are like.....No amps!....NO props!...NO Amped Voice.....No Bb anything!!....Blasphemy You Infidels!!!.....JIHAD!!!!) I luv ya guys and gals :) , but you don't march any more. Deal with it. ) People who currently march drumcorp are not merely entertainers.

Just curious to know what people think about these issues. I really think these issues are the Crux of many debates. Just a note on The Cadets.....I am not trying to speak for the organization or the person.......but......Marc Sylvester does consider himself an artist. Take that for what it's worth.

To wrap up...... Let The Cadets 06 and other Drumcorps do what they want to do. NO ONE (including fans and alumni....despite how much money they claim to spend) has the right to tell them what to do, or how to do, whatever they decide to do in their show.

Again.......I stress.......it is THEIR show. Let Artists be Artists. What do ya say DCP?

I think this is the height of sarcasm and offends fans....of course Cadets and other drum corps can do what they want, but to trash the fans as you do is not only offensive, but unbecoming of an artist....this is just another opinion added to the thousands we read everyday....just another "artist" rant as far as I'm concerned......IMO a real artist would not even give this thread a second look.....and it is not up to you or anyone here to "Let The Cadets 06 and other Drumcorps do what they want to do."....it is up to them...and when you say that fans opinions don't matter, you are probably right....but fans dollars do!.....and to just dismiss this as "Yeah yeah yeah...... blah blah blah" is not only ridiculous, but insensitive to what really keeps the activity going...Fans, all fans...whether you agree with it or dismiss it....and while their opinions may not matter to you, offending them is nothing but a slap in the face..... shame on you!

[Jedicadet05]

Tradition???

[bawker]

Tradition???

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=54...q=vanguard+1992

Tradition!

(:P)

Edited March 4, 2006 by bawker

[Jeff Ream]

Ok, I don't even know how many posts in this thread have said this so far. Has it occurred to anybody that corps are not performing for empty stadiums?? I go to a lot of shows every year and the stands are packed with loud fans! Where are these empty stadiums you speak of?

it takes time for fans to get so fed up they leave....it's been proven many times with sports teams, products and other activities.

remember, DCI's attendance declined slowly but surely after 92 during the "discontent" era.....then a funny thing happened....shows started getting more "entertaining" and attendance rose.

but as more and more people get fed up, will the numbers keep going up? many people have said they keep going and holding out hope things change. but if enough leave, numbers will start going back down.

that said, that finals has been chosen to be in areas lately where attendance is bound to be good ( aka denver, west coast, boston, madison) yes numbers will be up.

but given that we havent heard a peep about the 2005 final numbers, it does make you wonder if they were really up.

[Lance]

How many comparisons can you draw? There was very little time for the top three to compete against each other in different keys....in fact Im not even sure that they did. And I will point out the 2004 div II champions are still in G bugles...beating almost every other Div II corps that was in Bb.

Myself and others just really do not want to see Drum Corps turn into marching band. Hopkin's has stated in the past he thinks that that is the direction that the activity should take. I dont want to watch the Cadets or Santa Clara or BD and think at any point that I might be watching Lassiter High School. As I said, if Cadets want to sing...fine......as long as Hopkins leaves the rest of DCI out of it. (Given his track record...I doubt he will)

Correct, we didn't see much Bb vs. G when corps had the option of switching. Why is that? Score sheets didn't change. You don't get extra points simply for having Bb horns. Bawker brought up a valid point that sponsorship might have something to do with it, but he was wise enough not to speak for every corps. As I asked before, the question you need to ask yourself is why do Bb horns fare better in competition for the corps who choose to use them? I'm really interested in why you think these corps changed over, especially huge blanket statements (e.g. George Hopkins forced them do it) that cover every corps. It amazes me that they all keep you so informed; either that, or you're one heck of a psychic. Now you're even saying that Hopkins, by having vocals in his corps' show, is thereby forcing all corps to sing to remain competitive, too. I don't see any credibility whatsoever to any of your statements. It's venting, and I hope it makes you feel better, but that's all it is. And I don't blame you for it.

[Lance]

it takes time for fans to get so fed up they leave....it's been proven many times with sports teams, products and other activities.

Absolutely correct. And we'll see if the level of fed up-ness affects attendance soon enough. If others hate it as much as you do, things will change. Hopkins said the same thing many times.

[Jeff Ream]

well, seeing as DCI East has dropped from the record 3 years ago, that's an indicator.

[JimF-LowBari]

One thing to consider about in the attendance figures is the number of years these fans stick around following DCI and the reasons they are watching for any given year. Are they long term fans who watch not knowing anyone on the field? Or are they people who sit in the stands because they know someone or are recent age outs and in a few years they will be gone?

IOW what can be said about DCIs future if a large percentage of fans paying $$$$ in 2006 could give a rats rear end about DCI in 2010. Pretty scarey thought if a large percentage of the fan base has to be renewed every few years.

[Tank]

Plus, nobody is forced to do anything with their corps.

Well, sure, if they don't want to win.

And I'm not even talking about Fiedler's comment. I just think it's a result of the eternal "let's copy exactly what the winners do" mentality that emerges in many competitive arenas.

"Hey, Corps X won DCIs this year, and they had amps, saxophones, flying monkeys, and a light show. Next year, WE'RE gonna use flying monkeys and a light show!"

It's all about perception.

Edited March 5, 2006 by Tank

[ACM]

Correct, we didn't see much Bb vs. G when corps had the option of switching. Why is that? Score sheets didn't change. You don't get extra points simply for having Bb horns. Bawker brought up a valid point that sponsorship might have something to do with it, but he was wise enough not to speak for every corps. As I asked before, the question you need to ask yourself is why do Bb horns fare better in competition for the corps who choose to use them? I'm really interested in why you think these corps changed over, especially huge blanket statements (e.g. George Hopkins forced them do it) that cover every corps. It amazes me that they all keep you so informed; either that, or you're one heck of a psychic. Now you're even saying that Hopkins, by having vocals in his corps' show, is thereby forcing all corps to sing to remain competitive, too. I don't see any credibility whatsoever to any of your statements. It's venting, and I hope it makes you feel better, but that's all it is. And I don't blame you for it.

My point is when have you ever seen a corps do better simply because it was Bb? Bb fare better because all of the top 12 are in Bb....nothing to do with the key of the horn...but the top 12 remains faily constant every year. There has not been enough direct competition for you to say that Bb groups fare better than those in G.

Beyond that, carefully read what I said before you accuse me of being pyschic, I never said that the cadets having vocals in their show would force anything on anybody....personally I would prefer that if a group is going to sing, that it be done professionally.........what I DID say was that Hopkins better not come off of this season and try having a voice judge or anything of that nature added to DCI policy...because doing THAT would force a change on the rest of DCI. Examples of him trying this include: Amps, Non member doing soundboard, saxophones, etc.

Please read very carefully what I write before attacking in a personal way with comments like "im glad they keep you so informed" and other such things, I certainly did not do anything of the like to you.

Edited March 5, 2006 by ACM