kstein Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Again, anything that removes a drum corps opportunity for young people from the DCI arena is bad - and my opinion on that is never going to change. Don't care about Blast, don't care about music or money making opportunities for adults, because there are plenty out there. Keeping viable drum corps (somewhat) affordable and available to the young people who benefit from it is my primary concern. Do I want woodwinds, voices, amplification? #### no. But what I really don't want is the activity further diminished by anyone else getting the fool idea to pick up their marbles and leave. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 You know? On the surface, that sounds like a pretty reasonable and harmless idea. Perhaps it's because this thought gives me flashbacks to when DCW did something very similar in the early to mid 90s with their "youth band divisions". What gives me second thoughts on DCI doing it is that in the context of Mr. Hopkins' agenda, it would APPEAR that the superbands would be the BIG major division (i.e. Divison Oneish) and the drum corps the smaller. If that happens, it would kill the drum corps activity and all units would have to gravitate to the use of woodwinds to be successful just as corps are now having to do with amplification (which as I said is not a problem for me like woodwinds are). This of course would be the opposite of what DCW did which was "Divison I, then Division II, then division III then the youth bands". Youth bands were at the bottom of the pole. What Mr. Hopkins idea APPEARS to want (based on the proposal of 1997) is for the "anything goes/superbands" to be the big shots. That's where I check out - leading me back to saying that bands should have their own seperate place outside of the drum corps arena... IMO.... There would be few 'takers' for such a new division initially...and it may fall flat on it's face. If it DOES succeed to a high degree, than yes, I'm sure more wold follow...because if it does succeed maybe at that point it would be the better way to go for more corps. ...ESPECIALLY...hear this one out please...ESPECIALLY when certain figures in DCI have suggested that DCI corps and DCA corps should remain in seperate arenas from each other. Think about that. Many DCI figures have made it very clear (as have other people on here to me) that their should be no partnerships between the DCI and DCA activity. Would it really be fair then for DCI to shove senior corps out but accept marching bands in? Think about that one. Here you have DCA who does "Drum Corps" (with more in common with DCI than people want to realize) and people say that "they should remain in their own seperate place". Then you have marching band (which though has definite things in common is really COMPLETELY different in nature and character) and people are saying "oh yeah, bring em over and we will be one big happy family". That sounds like a double standard to me. Actually, worse. It sounds BACKWARDS! Drum corps should be in the arena of other drum corps regardless of age. Bands should be in the arena of other bands PERIOD! DCI/DCA together changes the youth aspect of DCI as an organization...which has legal and financial ramifications...adding WW does not, assuming the age cutoff remains as-is. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Star did not want to be restricted by the rules of DCI, so they went to where they could follow their vision, leaving everyone else to do as they please within the structure. Mr. Hopkins and friends feel that drum corps must become their vision and everyone else must follow their vision. While he is entitled to put his visions on the table, it doesn't make them right or good. Star ultimately did do the right thing because they did not allow DCI to govern what it does. Hopkins et.al. is trying to govern what ALL of drum corps does. There is a difference. As long as the votes are not there, doesn't matter what his personal vision is. Whether they are right or good is totally subjective. IMO there is no single right way to do things...Star's worked well for them, and Hoppy seems to be content to work within DCI's structure, also 'right', IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 IMO....There would be few 'takers' for such a new division initially...and it may fall flat on it's face. If it DOES succeed to a high degree, than yes, I'm sure more wold follow...because if it does succeed maybe at that point it would be the better way to go for more corps. DCI/DCA together changes the youth aspect of DCI as an organization...which has legal and financial ramifications...adding WW does not, assuming the age cutoff remains as-is. Mike Mike, your position seems very inconsistant. You advocate adding woodwinds which fundamentally changes the activity, yet you make the comment that a DCI/DCA partnership changes the youth aspect. DCI has much more in common with DCA than Superband. What is wrong with having a youth component, and a all age component working hand in hand for the activity as a whole? Why would you advocate one "change" over the other? Just curious, no fangs, claws or negativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 Or we lose junior corps all together and switch everything to "all ages".So then we can we have an "all ages" division and a true "senior corps" division with an age limit for younger members. So ye olde fartes like me don't have to jazz run cause our knees are bone on bone at this point. ^0^ WOW! When I think about what you just said, my mind wanders into the thought realms of "I wonder if DCAs verbiage change to "all age" is in part an effort to create a security blanket for drum corps in the event of the possibility that the unthinkable last straw rule change really DOES kill the activity". That thought may be a long shot from what DCAs real motivations are behind the change but I can't help but wonder it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Mike, your position seems very inconsistant. You advocate adding woodwinds which fundamentally changes the activity, IMO it doesn't do that. yet you make the comment that a DCI/DCA partnership changes the youth aspect. Yes, from a legal/financial aspect. DCI has much more in common with DCA than Superband. Again I disagree with that premise..esp the word 'much'. What is wrong with having a youth component, and a all age component working hand in hand for the activity as a whole? Nothing...I just see the youth aspect of DCI being a bigger stumbling block for the DCI organization than merely adding WW. Not saying it's a bad idea conceptually. Why would you advocate one "change" over the other? Just curious, no fangs, claws or negativity. If DCI found a good way to accomplish your idea without sacrificing the status of the organization....great. I am guessing that some of the major sponsorships of DCI are drawn in to the youth non-profit part of things in making their own financial contribution decisions. That's one reason I would guess DCI would be VERY careful about aligning themselves with the senior corps circuits, but I'm no legal expert...maybe it's not a big deal. Don't the west coast and midwest seniors already compete at DCI shows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 WOW! When I think about what you just said, my mind wanders into the thought realms of "I wonder if DCAs verbiage change to "all age" is in part an effort to create a security blanket for drum corps in the event of the possibility that the unthinkable last straw rule change really DOES kill the activity". That thought may be a long shot from what DCAs real motivations are behind the change but I can't help but wonder it anyway. My guess is that it is an attempt to make the nomenclature match the reality of the DCA membership...as it has been for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Woodwinds are not mandatory in marching band - they are an "option". Much like how pit percussion is an "option" in drum corps. Please. Can we be realistic here? If one of the bands I work with went to BOA Grand Nationals without a woodwind section the judges would crucify us. Likewise, if a drum corps were to hit the field without pit percussion, the judges would crucify them. The whole "optional" argument is a bunch of hogwash. Any change that DCI makes in terms of instrumentation FORCES the entire activity to follow up or be left behind. Look at the Bb horn scenario. They said it was "optional" at first, but now if a DCI corps does not have them they are written off as "old school" and not successful. Oh man, what if a corps came out with 2 valve bugles? They would get laughed at. Oh gee wiz...what if percussionists started marching with the pit instruments again? Think about it. It's utterly ridiculous to think that the addition of woodwinds would only be "optional" and at the result of corps who don't use them still being successful. Sorry, this activity doesn't work that way. History says so. Edited March 7, 2006 by torn8o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I totally get what you're saying, and I don't want woodwinds either. But if they ever pass, we can't go claiming that "DCI" was forced into anything. They'll choose to go down whatever path they do--that's all I was saying. :) Yes and no. I believe that the financial climate set by the big boys does "force" some issues since that's where the sponsorships will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Someone could step up and take the Cadets place if they left...it would be a loss for DCI for certain, but the circuit has weathered losing Anaheim, Bayonne and countless others over the years.However, I can't fathom that George Hopkins is using pulling the Cadets out of DCI as a threat to get what he wants in the meeting room. That kind of stuff doesn't seem like something he'd do, philosophy of "drum corps" aside. I truly think that if BD and/or the Cadets (possibly together to do a joint production) left DCI for a year or two or even for good ... and took their show to indoor theater...added woodwinds if they wanted, and so on...that there would be an audience for it. More than enough to keep the organizations afloat, and more than enough interest to keep the membership high. More than likely enough to where the kids could get paid a small stipend as well. Another great choice for the marching arts performer...another great choice for the fan...the designers get to create on a unrestricted canvas...and drum corps still sails along. Everyone wins. However, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens in the heere and now. :) I've never heard any discussion of George threatening to pull the Cadets out for any reason. Has anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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