overthehillDM Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) I have not seen 'creatively stifled' staffs. Sometmes things are just plain good ideas...amps...amplified voice...WW...electronics...being four prime examples. Hi Mike, I've been reading about these arguments for a long time now, & I've just got to chime in! I am a music educator, a drum corps marching member and staff member, an 18-piece big band leader, trumpet player, and I must admit... I love many different styles/genres of music, and I appreciate most of the different idioms, from rock bands, to marching bands, but... While I like amps, amplified voice, woodwinds, and electronics... I do NOT think that they are appropriate nor "good ideas" for the drum and bugle corps activity!!! (If marching bands want to use them, fine! That's a WHOLE different ball game!) To me, those "ideas" just distort, and actually diminish the "core" of the activity (no pun intended), which is the drums, bugles, and MARCHING & MANUEVERING! I think we all agree that there have been MANY wonderful innovations, and changes within the drum corps activity, but I think people are getting a bit carried away! Those "ideas", (imho), just don't seem to fit in with the rest of the picture. Just my 2 cents. JJ PS - I (think) I know what you're thinking, Mike, and, I agree that Don Angelica would be all for these changes/ideas, but, I never totally agreed with him on everything. For example, he was a huge proponent of dancing in the color guards, even back in the late 70s. Personally, I would love to see more equipment work performed like the 27th Lancers used to do, and the Madison Scouts, and Anaheim Kingsmen! That was really special, and difficult, and incredibly crowd-pleasing. I believe that some dancing is great, but I think that it has been taken too far, and that now there is very little equipment work being performed. Edited May 31, 2006 by overthehillDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferb27 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Hi Mike,I've been reading about these arguments for a long time now, & I've just got to chime in! I am a music educator, a drum corps marching member and staff member, an 18-piece big band leader, trumpet player, and I must admit... I love many different styles/genres of music, and I appreciate most of the different idioms, from rock bands, to marching bands, but... While I like amps, amplified voice, woodwinds, and electronics... I do NOT think that they are appropriate nor "good ideas" for the drum and bugle corps activity!!! (If marching bands want to use them, fine! That's a WHOLE different ball game!) To me, those "ideas" just distort, and actually diminish the "core" of the activity (no pun intended), which is the drums, bugles, and MARCHING & MANUEVERING! I think we all agree that there have been MANY wonderful innovations, and changes within the drum corps activity, but I think people are getting a bit carried away! Those "ideas", (imho), just don't seem to fit in with the rest of the picture. Just my 2 cents. JJ PS - I (think) I know what you're thinking, Mike, and, I agree that Don Angelica would be all for these changes/ideas, but, I never totally agreed with him on everything. For example, he was a huge proponent of dancing in the color guards, even back in the late 70s. Personally, I would love to see more equipment work performed like the 27th Lancers used to do, and the Madison Scouts, and Anaheim Kingsmen! That was really special, and difficult, and incredibly crowd-pleasing. I believe that some dancing is great, but I think that it has been taken too far, and that now there is very little equipment work being performed. Well put Jim, well put! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BD_Fan Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 PS - I (think) I know what you're thinking, Mike, and, I agree that Don Angelica would be all for these changes/ideas, but, I never totally agreed with him on everything. For example, he was a huge proponent of dancing in the color guards, even back in the late 70s. Personally, I would love to see more equipment work performed like the 27th Lancers used to do, and the Madison Scouts, and Anaheim Kingsmen! That was really special, and difficult, and incredibly crowd-pleasing. I believe that some dancing is great, but I think that it has been taken too far, and that now there is very little equipment work being performed. I was with you until you this point. I strongly disagree with your opinion about there being too much dance in colorguard, and very little equipment work.Sometimes there are sections of a show where the guard is all dancing, but so what? It's legitimate, and it works. For a recent example, check out the beginning of Bluecoats' ballad last year. The entire guard was dancing, and it was very effective. There is plenty of equipment work being performed these days, and it has become ever more difficult with the simultaneous demand of being layered with body, marching, and having to perform to the audience. It is a far cry from double-time on rifle while doing high mark time with your face covered by a shako, but colorguard is, by no means inferior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggmanX-Kingsmen Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I am sure this topic and poll has been on here before, but since I am relatively new to DCP, I would like to catch a snapshot as to how everyone feels about this. May the flames on me begin! Woodwind instruments belong in orchestras, jazz bands and marching bands, NOT drum corps. Death to the idea of woodwind instruments in Drum Corps. Even the mention of the idea is an abomination and subject to jihad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I was with you until you this point. I strongly disagree with your opinion about there being too much dance in colorguard, and very little equipment work.Sometimes there are sections of a show where the guard is all dancing, but so what? It's legitimate, and it works. For a recent example, check out the beginning of Bluecoats' ballad last year. The entire guard was dancing, and it was very effective. There is plenty of equipment work being performed these days, and it has become ever more difficult with the simultaneous demand of being layered with body, marching, and having to perform to the audience. It is a far cry from double-time on rifle while doing high mark time with your face covered by a shako, but colorguard is, by no means inferior. This is off topic and is probably worthy of a whole other thread if it hasn't been done already, but I agree with Jim. I respect how hard the guard members are working (I have two guard daughters), but I find modern guard very boring to watch, and I don't remember anything from any Div 1 guard I've seen in the past many years, including my much-beloved SCV. However - 27th still is fresh in the mind. To me the football field is way too big a venue to pick up the subtleties of dance from the upper deck. I just don't find I look at guards anymore unless one of my daughters is in one. PLEASE understand this is not slam on the members, just the WGI-like direction that DCI guard has taken. Ducking under desk now. I still hate the idea of WW (just to get back on topic) - great in a band - no place for them (or guitars, et al) in drum corps. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Except there are thousands of flute players, clarinet players, sax players who already march...and may want to march with the best in the world... But let's not forget how this drum corps circuit came to be "the best in the world" (your words)....by sticking to brass/percussion instruments only, while the summer marching band circuits dried up for lack of interest. it's not that big a deal to add them to drum corps, esp in a new division. Not a big deal? Wow, you'll say anything to keep the argument going. And for someone who thinks the absence of a xylophone in the Boston Crusaders' ranks on August 20, 1969, was such a big deal, you can't see how the addition of dozens of woodwinds to multiple corps would be a big deal? <**> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_itsnotadash Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (sarcasm) I don't see what the big deal is about adding woodwinds. Change is always good... heck, ask Russia. The whole "communism" thing worked out great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggmanX-Kingsmen Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 This is off topic and is probably worthy of a whole other thread if it hasn't been done already, but I agree with Jim. I respect how hard the guard members are working (I have two guard daughters), but I find modern guard very boring to watch, and I don't remember anything from any Div 1 guard I've seen in the past many years, including my much-beloved SCV. However - 27th still is fresh in the mind. To me the football field is way too big a venue to pick up the subtleties of dance from the upper deck. I just don't find I look at guards anymore unless one of my daughters is in one. PLEASE understand this is not slam on the members, just the WGI-like direction that DCI guard has taken. Ducking under desk now. I still hate the idea of WW (just to get back on topic) - great in a band - no place for them (or guitars, et al) in drum corps. Jim No need to duck under your desk for saying there's too much dance and not enough equipment work in color guard these days. Modern guard IS boring to watch, a total zzzzzzzzzzzzzz-fest for me. I think it's because it's not unique. I can see dancing anytime/anywhere, from my 8-year-old's dance recitals, to ballet on T.V. almost 24/7. Equipment work using flags, rifles, sabers, etc. was unique to drum corps and exciting to watch. If I want to see dancing, I'll suffer through another performance of "Nutcracker" with the family at Christmas time. A little dancing mixed with equipment work is fine. Heck, even the Anaheim Kingsmen rifle line did a little jazz dancing way back in 77. Today’s guards have lost their uniqueness with way too much dancing and I don’t enjoy watching men in spandex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 No need to duck under your desk for saying there's too much dance and not enough equipment work in color guard these days.Modern guard IS boring to watch, a total zzzzzzzzzzzzzz-fest for me. I think it's because it's not unique. I can see dancing anytime/anywhere, from my 8-year-old's dance recitals, to ballet on T.V. almost 24/7. Equipment work using flags, rifles, sabers, etc. was unique to drum corps and exciting to watch. If I want to see dancing, I'll suffer through another performance of "Nutcracker" with the family at Christmas time. A little dancing mixed with equipment work is fine. Heck, even the Anaheim Kingsmen rifle line did a little jazz dancing way back in 77. Today’s guards have lost their uniqueness with way too much dancing and I don’t enjoy watching men in spandex. I was wrong - something does come back but it's an equipment thing. Phantom a couple of years ago when they opened with the entire guard on rifle. That toss kicked ###. the crowd always loved it. Visual Designers - take note....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 I have given my reasons many times in the multitude of threads on the subject. I wish you would repost them.......I would like to see what they are. Heres the thing. Most people who are against WW in drum corps want to preserve the idea of a big powerful all-brass ensemble. Is there something wrong with that ?? It bothers me to keep reading over and over from pro-WW folks (Your not the only one....) about "Oh...the activity is closed off to folks who play woodwinds. How many types of musical groups are available for WW players to belong to ??? How many types of musical groups are availabe for people who want to play in an all-brass ensemble ???? There are at least twice as many musical groups for WW players to participate in as compared to people who want to play in an all-brass group....... Triple Forte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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