Why can't we let the Cadets be the Cadets?

[geluf]

And all the mic's and amp's pupose is to keep people from asking each other:

"What the crap Are they saying?"

Of course...given the myriad equipment problems and people not knowing how to talk into a mic thus far....you could say people are STILL asking themselves that. :P

[GMichael1230]

Sorry, disagree. Singing, micced or unmicced belongs in drum corps as much as any other legal instrument. Whether you or I like a particlular use..or even if you don't like it at all makes no difference. Those ARE opinions. But, as it is legal...it belongs...fact.

Mike,did you know in the world of law, when decision or "laws" are put into placethey are called opinions ? A law is simply a legal opinion that is now able to be carried o ut without fear of retribution. All it means is now someones opinions are now legal, has nothing to do with fact. IN the area of drum corps the opinion for amps were heard and the BoD passed those opinions to be legal, to let them in, it doenst mean that its a fact it belongs there. Argue semantics all you want but that is the truth. See it makes no difference what side you are for.

~G~

[4MalletJim]

...is that simple enough for you?

y-e-s.....simple enough?lol(jk)

[Jeff Ream]

To the original poster- You are absolutely 100% correct. To those who are against singing, against amping, against props, against keyed horns, against anything that is happening today in DCI, why are you still here? Are you holding out for the day when corps will start playing unthemed shows with patriotic music? Because it isn't going to happen. Anyone who thinks that the "amp craze" or the "singing thing" is going to die down after a few seasons is sadly mistaken. People, the change is here. It doesn't matter whether you like it or hate it. All that matters is that change is happening. And if you cannot accept what Drum Corps International has become, go support DCA. Or leave the activity entirely because it won't ever be what it was. Logistically, logically, and financially, it would be a horrible mistake to go back. So dig out your old tapes, blast your old recordings and lament the day that drum corps died. Live in the past and ignore the present.

The "for the kids" argument is not a cop out by any means. If you think drum corps exists for you, the fan, you are extrodinarily pretentious. If you leave, no one will notice. No one will care. There will be enough people to take your place. DCI doesn't care that you don't like amps. They don't care that you hate all they stand for. They know that there will always be new blood. And people will fall in love with the state of the activity today just like you fell in love with it X amount of years ago. So if you want your old school drum corps and you think your opinion of the activity matters so much, stop being so goshdarn arrogant; if that's the case and you feel like that, your drum corps no longer exists. Come out of denial and don't pretend like "it will get better someday". It's only going to continue in the direction it's going. Don't like that thought, doesn't really matter. It's gonna change.

Maybe I like the older corps as well. I think it was a lot more raw and just plain hard. Today, that's not the case. But I can listen to '96 Regiment and then '05 Cadets without breaking a sweat. Not better or worse, just different.

how is saying you dont like how a show is designed all about you or bashing the kids?

oh wait it isn't, but the bashing the kids crowd never have any other comeback.

THE KIDS DONT WRITE THE SHOW.

henceforth, bashing design....NOT PERFORMANCE....DESIGN....is NOT bashing the kids.

why is that so ####### hard for people to get???

oh and why are we still here...because we want DCI back to the way we loved it. we arent asking for 1975. #### 2002 would make many happy.

[Jeff Ream]

Maybe you should read again. I said remember saying kids and/or designers. It was one or the other, you pick. The point here is what is wrong with something new or different. Why do you have to complain about what they, the kids and the designers, are creating? If you hate it soooo much, then don't go to the show.

hey...i've criticized old stuff. i have called some shows flat out rehash. in fact, a corps known for pushing the limits when on a 3 year run of "old school" shows.

while most believed they were seeing the 2nd coming of god, i stated that in many cases, it was failed attempts to re-create legends.

[Jeff Ream]

why can't they?

I mean - I am assuming you are still not supporting the shows because of AMPS - so in a way you are not supporting the "kids" with your dollars or applause.

It's all the same - IMO

All you are now to those "kids" is an empty seat in their performance venue and someone who wont be giving them any applause after they bust the butt all day and leave it on the field. All you are now is another gallon of gas the corps needs to get those "kids" down the field - but the $3 bucks aint' there because you didn't buy a ticket or a t-shirt

We all bash the "kids" in our own way when we fail to support them / be it because of the judges, the instructors, the "designers", "DCI" - or whatever excuse we use.

so by your logic, if i dont go to the opera, my empty seat is hurting opera performers? i dont go to death metal concerts, is my empty seat hurting them?

see this attitude continues to turn off more and more legacy fans, and quite frankly, DCI cant live without them. these are the fans that were there 13 years ago when DCI picked a hellhole for finals. we're the ones that kept coming back when DCI was deep in the hole.

notice, after 2 years of press releases so full of spin politicians took note about attendance, last year we see nothing about attenance.

you cant have one without the other, and the more you #### off fans, the less fans will give their money.

and when blasting diesgin, you arent blasting the kids. I respect every single kid from c corps to D1 champs for busting their ###. it isnt their choice of the show chosen.

[Jeff Ream]

Who cares? It's ultimately up to the consumer to decide...so we can deride all the older fans, we can deride the newer ones...and we're all left with the same choice:

You either go or you don't.

You either like it or you don't.

Let's all get off the finger-pointing maching for a sec, and realize that the only drum corps dollars, throughts and minds we control are our own.

Do what you will, but don't act like you're right on either side of this. It's all opinion to what you think is art, what you think is a worthy cause, and to what you think is good/bad design.

Anyone else who tries to tell you different is wasting bandwidth.

The End. :)

(just wanted to waste bandwidth for you)

[Jeff Ream]

The sad fact is that the Troopers failed because they did not change along with everyone else. But the Facts are here. DCI IS CHANGING. And if you don't like it, get left behind like the Troopers, or keep moving.

actually they failed because of bad business practices.

[audiodb]

First off, after the conclusion of the 2005 program, the young adults who auditioned for their prized and hard earned spots in the Cadets knew EXACTLY what they were getting into. They support the program they are in , and they enjoy their differences. The staff created a show that coincided with the current rules of the 2006 season, for drum corps international.

Don't be mad at the Cadets, get mad at DCI.

remember this is DCI! NOT the VFW

Drum Corps International......

Which is CHANGING. Whether good or bad , it is YOUR opinion. But the facts are present. More BOA type shows will keep popping up , and DCI isn't going to do a thing about it. If they hold to their guns, DCI will die out. DCI wants to be a contemporary marching arts program. They will NOT attract band kids to their programs if they stay in the past. Where do you think they get all of their memberS??!! have you been to a BOA show recently? Makes the Cadets look traditional.

If DCI had not made changes in the past, whether it be adding valves to the instruments, or allowing corps to play more notes in the drumline, or the addition of props, DCI would fall face first into the ground.

We all know that there will be opposition to every decision made by drum corps international. Yes the Cadets are an extreme " Right" in the activity, where the troopers are the extreme "Left" . And the bluecoats are near the middle..

I say... If it's soooo bad, don't buy Cadets merchandise, don't watch their DVD's, and walk out of the stadium when they preform. I know this is extremely rude, but what is the difference when all I hear is bashing in DCP?

Its not 1975 any more folks, and the second we bash and restrict complex show designs that are trying to acheive an " art" , you become closed minded.

And I am appalled that people want to bash someone's art because they don't like "singing". Well go get on the DCI's board of directors , go to those meetings, and vote against it... oh wait... oh wait... Its what DCI wants. Go start a VFW program , and watch and see that NOBODY wants to start an old school corps.

When does it stop? The valves? the amps? What's the difference? When people stop showing up to the Cadets shows, when they stop buying their t-shirts, is when it stops. And that is NOT happening. Just walk past a Cadets booth, its vERY busy right now, and it's mostly high school kids, the future of drum corps as we know it.

Oh and one last thing... Have you noticed a change on the front page of DCI.orG?

" Drum Corps International : Marching Musics Major League "

It is no longer" Drum and bugle corps : Tradition, history, repetitivness"

I am in no way saying that you cannot dislike a corps, or their program. But stop saying " Singing doesn't belong". Because according to the rules , it does, and it's what the majority of the people want, and the directors. DCI wants to be the LEADING edge in the Marching Arts, and the way things are going, its looking great. If DCI holds back, sticks to its guns, it will FAIL.

Let's see:

shift blame away from corps, to DCI instead: check.

reference to VFW: check.

change is essential, or DCI will die: check.

reference to BOA: check.

myth that these changes are necessary to attract band kids: check.

reference to valveless instruments: check.

characterizing opposing viewpoints as "bashing": check.

reference to 1975: check.

declaration of changes as "art": check.

characterizing opposing viewpoints as "closed-minded": check.

telling those opposed to get on DCI board of directors: check.

high school kids = DCI market: check.

silence the critics: check.

Excellent job with the rhetoric. But you forgot to characterize opposing viewpoints as "punishing the kids". Keep at it - you're almost there!

[madscout96]

ok...

This whole deal with saying "mics and amps dont belong" is stupid. It's not illeagle to use them. And all the mic's and amp's pupose is to keep people from asking each other:

"What the crap Are they saying?"

not trying to be revolutionary...

It's simple.

When, during the pre-amps era, was there a huge problem of drum corps audiences not being able to understand what performers are SAYING?