Studio Tan Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Until someone else consistently makes Top 3 over 3 to 4 years, or wins in the next few years (Phantom/Coats)...things will stay the same. "Any given night..." needs to make a comeback. :) When was Any Given Night there in the first place, though? Before Blue Devils-Cadets-Cavaliers, it was just Blue Devils-Cadets-Santa Clara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) The original poster specifically said this thread is about the perception of those outside our inner circle of the activity, but people are still trying to turn it into a semantics battle for some reason.I would say that to a casual fan that just started watching drum corps in the last few years that Madison and SCV are NOT elite. The competition field has gotten a lot thicker and I don't think that these corps have kept up with their competition. PS - It's ok for us to talk about this, the fact of the matter is that some corps ARE better than others. If all corps were created equally then they wouldn't bother reading the scores at the end of the night. I'd agree with this. Someone who "started watching drum corps the last few years " would probably not consider SCV for instance an " elite corps ". That would be like people in the 70's not considering the elite Corps of the 60's like Cavies, Boston and Cadets " elite Corps " any longer. Cavies, Boston and the Cadets were mostly also rans thru much of the 70's., after all 3 being " elite Corps " in the 60's. And SCV in the 70's were on everybody's list then as an " elite Corps ". So it all depends on the time line and one's personal experience. A Person new to Drum Corps these last couple of years would probably have the Bluecoats as an " elite Corps ", and this would be entirely understandable. Edited July 28, 2006 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 When was Any Given Night there in the first place, though? Before Blue Devils-Cadets-Cavaliers, it was just Blue Devils-Cadets-Santa Clara. Most recently...late 80's into the early 90's. Blue Devils, SCV, Cadets, Madison, Cavaliers, Star and Phantom all in the "mix" more or less. 1988: Madison SCV BD 1989: SCV Phantom Cavs 1990: Cadets Cavs Star 1991: Star Cavs Phantom 1992: Cavs Cadets Star That's a prtty good 5 year snapshot of having several different corps in the hunt. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Tan Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Hey, that is preferable. I just thought the 80s were nothing but Blue Devils and Cadets wins, with a Madison upset in '88 and a few SCV wins here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Hey, that is preferable. I just thought the 80s were nothing but Blue Devils and Cadets wins, with a Madison upset in '88 and a few SCV wins here and there. Yeah, I do think that there was a little stagnation for a few years in the 80's; partly due to the Cadets threepeat (+87). However, one of the things that broke that was the Cavaliers rise to prominence starting in 1985/1986, along with Star in the very late 80's. Perhaps we're seeing the Bluecoats now in that same role the mid 80's Cavaliers played, along with Crown as another up and comer. It does feel like it takes an ice age before there is some sort of "change" though, so I get where you're coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Don-O Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 If my children ever decide they want to march corps, I pray they'll want to march Vanguard... does that answer the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 If my children ever decide they want to march corps, I pray they'll want to march Vanguard... does that answer the question? Not really since the topic is about what the general public sees and not what you see :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I agree with Bawker. The elite corps and best corps can be quite different. I have rarely not been entertained by Bluecoats, Phantom, Cadets, Devils, and Cavaliers. Gmen and SCV have been good but not my cup of tea for years (this year's Gmen being the first show I like from them in a long time). Boston is off and on with me as far as entertainment, same with Crossmen, and Madison has not had that Madison formula since 1999. However, I think if you are going to define elite, then one must look at the corps that have the best chance at winning titles. There are ONLY three corps that consistently do this: Cavaliers, Cadets, and BD. In the early 90s we had Star of Indiana. In the 1970s and 1980s SCV and Madison were contenders many times, but since 1990 this has not been the case. SCV has 1 title since 1990, and that was the only year they contended, well you can possibly throw in 1998. And while Madison has some fantastic shows in the 1990s, none of them contended seriously. The Blue Devils have been contending for the last 4 decades, the Cadets for the last 3, and the Cavaliers the last 2. These 3 have been consistent top 3 finishers since then, and continue to be today. No currently active corps can say that, and it's not even close. So these three are the elite. If you want to beat them, then beat 'em. Take 'em on head to head, and prepare for a serious battle. I am pushing for Blue this year. They now have the muscle, so to speak, and the other necessities, and their product just gets better and better. If your definition is that an elite corps is a top 5 corps, then I suggest that the Bluecoats are an elite corps. If your definition is not based on long-term past and all, then yes, the 'Coats are elite. Only if you are considering long-term history can you even make the argument that SCV and Madison are elite corps, or if tradition and fan respect is part of the equation. But if elite mean contending, ability to win, and the highest level of excellence in performance, then there are 3 and only 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiqman205 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 an elite corp to me is a corp that has me standing clapping and cheering like no tomorrow. which means as of this week the ones ive seen live that i consider elite are Magic, Crossmen, Spirit, SCV and BD (ive only been into drumcorps for 1 year and didnt even know my band director marched until someone told me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Tan Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 an elite corp to me is a corp that has me standing clapping and cheering like no tomorrow. which means as of this week the ones ive seen live that i consider elite are Magic, Crossmen, Spirit, SCV and BD Well, that's not really what we're talking about. If so, the Madison Scouts would be the most elite corps of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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