Credibility in judging

[Walter]

The only people the judges of DCI have to answer to are the corps they are judging and the DCI Judges Association !!

Just because we like a corps and they don't score as high as we would like them too, doesn't mean that the judges "screwed" them.

Why would the judges do that ?? They have nothing to gain from it !! B)

[Ageout90]

I agree with Jeff B..

In the summer fans and staffs get emotionally attached to their programs (As they well should) BUT

We may not want to believe the truth and sometimes the truth hurts. But one of the main reasons drum and bugle corps is such an amazing activity is due to the high standards of the judging community, not to mention the extensive training/evaluation they go through, and ability of DCI judges to get input from the staffs during the winter meetings keep an open dialogue as to where the activity should go.

To the other post about the two tier percussion judging.....It was the instructors btw (winter of 2005) that wanted to have a two percussion judge system at the big regionals, and I find it funny that the judges actually brought up their concerns about some of the same things you are bringing up on this topic about the difference between upstairs and downstairs "percussion- perception"

Bottom line is that it holds percussion sections more accountable to more elements of music than ever before, and will in the end, make drum lines more cohesive and perform better due to the extra input.

Finally....last summer as I left the stadium in Foxboro....I shook John Phillips' hand and said to him..."You guys got it right, and congratulations on a great year of judging."

He told me, that he wishes someone or anyone for that matter would say that to him at the end of the season.

Judging is like being an umpire or a referee in professional sports.....imagine if they had critiques in ice skating!

Enjoy the weekend

[Reauxbee]

First, judges like umpires have the most thankless jobs in the world. Judges primarily do it for the love of the activity. The honorariums they get hardly pay expenses.

Second, as a marcher, I hated judges. I felt that we were never given the credit that we deserved. Then I grew up.

Judges go into the day and do the best that they can. It is a difficult at best... try to go to a big contest and rank the middle groups accuratly. The top and bottom is easy.... it's the middle ones that are hard.... Ranking groups that perform two hours apart is a nightmare. The approach they have is specific, detailed, placement driven, and falable. As varied as the education the judges have, so will their opinions.

I can't give you the specific details of the DCI training and selection of judges, but I can give a general idea. Most organizations give prospective judges oportunites to attend training sessions where they will learn the ruberics and specifics of each caption. Then applicants will make sample tapes to submit to be evaluated along with resumes containing performance, teaching and judging experiences. From there a pool of judges is set and assigned for contests based on availibility and priority.

Do I agree with all the results? NO,, but I can understand now how there are variations. Hopefully, the judges do thier job properly where not one judges decides the final outcome.

I hope to begin a career in marching ajudication... perhaps oneday I'll get to judge the big one.

[resurrection]

I just had a conversation today with a fellow band director and professional musician (he actually plays in a orchestra to supplement income) about the score differentials in shows this year. His point was that there is very little difference between the top 5 corps this year. He went on to state that the Cadets are getting the benefit of the doubt. Maybe their reputation or complaining is working. Have you noticed how many different topics state somewher "Cadets"? He then said that the (in no order) Cavaliers, Bluecoats, PR and BD are pretty much on the same leve. It's just that some have won championships and one has not. My point is: cheer for your favorite corp, even if you think they are getting the shaft. In many circumstances, they are. Don't forget however, that we are not in control, the judges are and they have not seemed to figure this out as of yet. If they have, then all the complaining from corp directors would go in one ear and out the other. They are after all human.

[Studio Tan]

Just like the home team in a sporting event may sometimes get the benefit of the doubt in certain situations.

One time I was watching Dwyane Wade drive to the basket on ESPN and D!ck Bavetta actually called a personal foul on me!

Edited July 29, 2006 by Studio Tan

[Halcyon122]

One time I was watching Dwyane Wade drive to the basket on ESPN and D!ck Bavetta actually called a personal foul on me!

Whenever I watch Wade, I foul out by the 2nd quarter...

[kevingamin]

One time I was watching Dwyane Wade drive to the basket on ESPN and D!ck Bavetta actually called a personal foul on me!

If you looked in the mirror recently, you'd understand why. :P

C'mon, you knew somebody had to go there.

[DCfan76]

My beef isn't so much with the judges as it is with the judgING.

What makes a score a score? Sure, we have these sheets explaining what the "boxes" mean... but what does that mean? What led to the number inside that box? WHY was corps A a 15.1 and corps be a 15.7 - especially if I, Joe Fan, saw it a different way? Am I missing something?

There are many of us who would like to do more than just go to a show and clap and say, "That was nice," and go home.

I think an entrepeneurial type would do very well to create a webcast featuring judges and video of REAL (albeit past) corps performances - and EDUCATING us as to what made corps A score higher than corps B.

I would pay good money to watch that.

[kevingamin]

My beef isn't so much with the judges as it is with the judgING.

What makes a score a score? Sure, we have these sheets explaining what the "boxes" mean... but what does that mean? What led to the number inside that box? WHY was corps A a 15.1 and corps be a 15.7 - especially if I, Joe Fan, saw it a different way? Am I missing something?

There are many of us who would like to do more than just go to a show and clap and say, "That was nice," and go home.

I think an entrepeneurial type would do very well to create a webcast featuring judges and video of REAL (albeit past) corps performances - and EDUCATING us as to what made corps A score higher than corps B.

I would pay good money to watch that.

During one of Dan Potter's Field Pass shows, he talked with judges who watch DVDs from previous years and make practice judging tapes. It might be fun to "sit in" on one of those sessions and see what the judge sees, kind of like the commentary on the DVDs now.

[dbc03]

I just had a conversation today with a fellow band director and professional musician (he actually plays in a orchestra to supplement income) about the score differentials in shows this year. His point was that there is very little difference between the top 5 corps this year. He went on to state that the Cadets are getting the benefit of the doubt. Maybe their reputation or complaining is working. Have you noticed how many different topics state somewher "Cadets"? He then said that the (in no order) Cavaliers, Bluecoats, PR and BD are pretty much on the same leve. It's just that some have won championships and one has not. My point is: cheer for your favorite corp, even if you think they are getting the shaft. In many circumstances, they are. Don't forget however, that we are not in control, the judges are and they have not seemed to figure this out as of yet. If they have, then all the complaining from corp directors would go in one ear and out the other. They are after all human.

No offense, but if he thinks that Bluecoats and PR are on the same level as the Cavaliers and Blue Devils right now I can't take his opinion very seriously.