gellio Posted August 5, 2006 Author Share Posted August 5, 2006 Obviously I can't becuase I'm not a judge but like Phantombari1 said those other coprs could of had a really good night. People make it seem like there's a conspiracy against The Cadets, but more importantly against Hop. Well, I think quite the opposite. I don't think there's a conspiracy against the Cadets. Don't shoot me, but I think the Cadets will beat Bluecoats at finals because they are the Cadets and the other the Bluecoats. I think the Cadets benefit perhaps more than anyone by carrying the name "the Cadets". It's just my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosvi7 Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 You know - why read this thread if you're going to be like this? Why waste everyone's time by replying only to scold me? I am trying to 1). understand the judging system more, and 2). bring up a subject from his Blog that struck me as interesting! There is nothing wrong with people saying what they think about a post you make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gellio Posted August 5, 2006 Author Share Posted August 5, 2006 I thought it was based on design AND execution. As in, I thought the design of the show (drill design, music composition, guard routine, etc) tended to set your potential points and then execution determined whether you could meet that. That's why a perfectly clean corps with low demand would probably not win it all despite being cleaner than everyone else. Again I could question that by bring up corps I think who have sub-par designs but still place very high, but I won't. Design is nothing more than an opinion. You could think Corps A has the best design, and I think Corps A has the worst design. Design is completely subjective. Execution shouldn't be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gellio Posted August 5, 2006 Author Share Posted August 5, 2006 There is nothing wrong with people saying what they think about a post you make. No, there's not, but I didn't appreciate the scolding tone. This is a forum - a forum where people can post whatever topic they like related to this activity. If you are sick of reading judging threads, then why on earth would you click on a thread with the word "judging" in its subject title? I am sick of the Cadets threads, so now, I just don't bother reading them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incompleatangler Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 You (and the previous poster) are right! I did, however, think judging was based on execution, not design. I know design plays a role, and it should! I'm just puzzled by the criteria. GE caption scores should reflect how a corps' execution balances with their design. We could get 135 DCP posters to march 8-to-5 and play "Come to Jesus" in whole notes INCREDIBLY cleanly, but that wouldn't earn us much in the GE caption. Similarly, the Cavies (since they seem to be the GE Vis standard this decade) could presumably design a show that they either couldn't execute because it was too hard or one that just didn't have the same pop. Now Mr. Gaines (another of the drum corps gods-with a small g-in my opinion) and the rest of the Cavies' design staff aren't pushing the envelope in the same way the Cadets are. They're designing shows that they are almost CERTAIN will score well, especially when cleaned to the Cavalier standard. Cadets, on the other hand, are trying to challenge the paradigm. Last year they hit a home run. This year it MIGHT turn out to be just a basses clearing double. Not everything pops like the saw it in 3D Java. That's okay! They should be commended for continuing to challenge us and the activity artistically. To bring it back to the original post, G-men and Boston have shows (I'm drawing generalizations based on what I've heard for the most part) that make total sense, challenge their members, please crowds and judges.... You get the idea. Cadets' show is maybe just a little under-realized right now. That's been the case before for them and they make the changes and do the cleaning to bring the score up to where they want it to be. This year they might be too stubborn to bow to judging trends. That's okay, too. I wonder, though, if Mr. Hopkins is drinking some of his own kool-aid (to borrow another sports world catch phrase) instead of listening to the feedback he gets from these VERY qualified judges. Again, no authority here... just my $.02 Okay, long post... $.04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekneek Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 Again I could question that by bring up corps I think who have sub-par designs but still place very high, but I won't. Design is nothing more than an opinion. You could think Corps A has the best design, and I think Corps A has the worst design. Design is completely subjective. Execution shouldn't be! You've just explained the problem with the "build-up" system of judging. It is very subjective and every judge probably knows what each corps has been scoring over the past week before that corps takes the field. A while back some judge actually dropped his cheat sheet on the field, which created a bit of a firestorm when a guard member of a corps picked it up. No judge wants to be the guy who got the placements all wrong compared to the other judges out there. It may be that culture that is the real problem. It's how corps are able to ride on reputation and gives people ammo to challenge the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnweldy Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 No, there's not, but I didn't appreciate the scolding tone. This is a forum - a forum where people can post whatever topic they like related to this activity. If you are sick of reading judging threads, then why on earth would you click on a thread with the word "judging" in its subject title? I am sick of the Cadets threads, so now, I just don't bother reading them. I wasn't scolding you, I was just trying to tell you there are more worthwile avenues for your energies. You didn't answer my question. If you favorite corps (I'm assuming Madison) gets 13th instead of 4th, does that make you enjoy them less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekneek Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 I wasn't scolding you, I was just trying to tell you there are more worthwile avenues for your energies. You didn't answer my question. If you favorite corps (I'm assuming Madison) gets 13th instead of 4th, does that make you enjoy them less? I think he legitimately just wanted to understand. There have been years when I was very entertained by corps that didn't make finals. Sometimes finding them more entertaining than the champion. So, for entertainment, it has nothing to do with the scores. However, sometimes it does seem that some corps are better than others but are not getting the points. It can be a source of frustration or confusion, even if it doesn't change the entertainment value of the production for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shostahoosier Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 I think one of the reasons why people have been so critical of judges this summer is because the parity that people have been begging for for years seems much more prevelant then it has in the past. People are used to the top tier corps remaining a safe distance from the other corps...whether that corps deserved it or not. Now that newer corps are producing stronger corps and are closing in on the top corps, people think its rubbish becuase they've been conditioned to believe thats impossible. I see your point Gellio - this is just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillwatcher Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 I think he legitimately just wanted to understand. There have been years when I was very entertained by corps that didn't make finals. Sometimes finding them more entertaining than the champion. So, for entertainment, it has nothing to do with the scores. However, sometimes it does seem that some corps are better than others but are not getting the points. It can be a source of frustration or confusion, even if it doesn't change the entertainment value of the production for me. Another question is who is the judge? Is it someone you are likely to see at nationals? Different people have different exposures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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