1972

[MikeD]

Several years later, when I was with Hawthorne Cabs, I asked Tuthill why he trashed us so bad at that show and he bluntly replied " because we sucked". I replied at least we were clean, unlike the line he instructed at Garfield. He just blinked at me and gave me a stare. LOL!

Sounds like George. He once told me about a show he and Gerry Shellmer judged together. After the show, Bobby Thompson and some of the BS folks were all PO'd at George and came at him...he had given them something like a 5 or 6 in drumming, when they were getting 15's and 16's at that point of the year. He asked them why they were so upset...he had them first! Shellmer had given them a comparable score, and had them 3rd or 4th.

Garfield's line in 69 was the start of a decent three year run of drumlines. Very young members overall. It was, I think, George's first year with Garfield. I have a memory that Danny Raymond was their drum guy just prior to George, but it was before my time. I have a recording of the 69 VFW Nat's; pretty clean line by that time.

[MikeD]

So Angelica was with Garfield and you are inferring that he was trying to eliminate the competition? Don't know why a corps would allow the competitions big man to change anything. Pretty strange. Who was your horn guy? Were you beating Cadets before this drastic change? Only thing I remember about '68 was the double bass "tubs" with the eagles on them. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think Angelica was with Garfield in 69. John Sasso was the main horn guy if I recall. Sasso was there in 70, along with a young assistant...Frank Dorrittie. Don came along in mid 71...and was our main horn instructor in 72.

[MikeD]

Steve,

I remember St. Lucy's as the season's start and they were very good ... I think Manny was back with you playing the solo in the OTL (at least for a short while) ... I lost track or their progress as Sky got into the swing of their own season ... Manny may have even been with us for a while ... LOL ...

That was a great opener...Manny did a great job with the solo. After St Lucy's folded, did you know that Manny went to BS for a while in the winter of 69/70? I don't think he made it through the winter with them, though. Talk about two great soloists....Manny and Bill Pusey. Would have been wonderful.

Never heard the Angelica story ... was Sasso still teaching the horn line in 69? ... Flowers was on drums that year - no? ... Tuthill probably got his shorts in a bind because Lucy's was the only corps in Jersey he wasn't teaching! ... LOL ... (don't get mad Mike but, Christ - he was everywhere that year) ...

Sasso was with Garfield in 69; I guess he could have been with St Lucy's too. No prob about George...he taught a lot of corps around that time, though most of them were Garden State corps outside of Garfield (when did he start with the Cabs?). I think the Fairlawn Cadets and the Wayne Monarchs were two of them.

When Garfield let him go after the 71 season, he actually ended up at Blessed Sac for 72, a match I never thought was 'made in heaven'. He actually took the street beat we in the Garfield drumline had written in 71, ELP's "Tank", and usd it as a drum solo with BS.

[cabalumsw]

Steve,

I remember St. Lucy's as the season's start and they were very good ... I think Manny was back with you playing the solo in the OTL (at least for a short while) ... I lost track or their progress as Sky got into the swing of their own season ... Manny may have even been with us for a while ... LOL ...

Anyway ... the hotel story was told to me by Jerry "Hardware" and Frankie "The Geek" ... although, I admt, it may have been one of those "can you top this?" scenarios at a bar after some show or rehearsal ... HAHA ... you know how it goes: "my corps did this ..." oh yeah? ... "well, my corps did so and so ..." ... BRAVADO at it's best!

Anyway, I was surprised that St. Lucy's went to the AL in Atlanta and skipped the VFW in Philly ... I figured you wanted to try and repeat as Champs ...

Never heard the Angelica story ... was Sasso still teaching the horn line in 69? ... Flowers was on drums that year - no? ... Tuthill probably got his shorts in a bind because Lucy's was the only corps in Jersey he wasn't teaching! ... LOL ... (don't get mad Mike but, Christ - he was everywhere that year) ...

See ... passion doesn't hover only around 1972 ... many things prior and after that are fun to get the details on 30-40 years later ... this is like participating in a PBS special!!!! ... LOL ...

Andy

Andy:

Believe it or not, Manny got thrown out of Lucy's during the middle of 1969 and then joined BS. I'll never forget this. We sponsored a show in Harrison and it had rained during the day, thunderstorms. The gates had just opened for the show and Manny drives through the gates onto the field and starts spinning out on the field. As fast as he came in to the Stadium, he drove out. To say the least, he marched his last show with St. Lucy's. What a character. I believe Manny went to Sky after BS.

Yes, Flowers was on drums in 1969. Sasso and Frank Pisillo were horn instructors and I believe Bob Bunz (sp) wrote some music as well.

I remember the hotel. It was the Mark Inn near the airport and it is still in business. The rooms had orange wall to wall carpeting and the carpeting ran up the walls to the ceiling. I remember it being hot and humid and we worked our butts off that week believing we had a decent shot.

John Flowers made a cassette for me of our performance at 1969 Nationals.

[cabalumsw]

Sounds like George. He once told me about a show he and Gerry Shellmer judged together. After the show, Bobby Thompson and some of the BS folks were all PO'd at George and came at him...he had given them something like a 5 or 6 in drumming, when they were getting 15's and 16's at that point of the year. He asked them why they were so upset...he had them first! Shellmer had given them a comparable score, and had them 3rd or 4th.

Garfield's line in 69 was the start of a decent three year run of drumlines. Very young members overall. It was, I think, George's first year with Garfield. I have a memory that Danny Raymond was their drum guy just prior to George, but it was before my time. I have a recording of the 69 VFW Nat's; pretty clean line by that time.

Mike:

Danny Raymond was with Garfield in 1968.

I remember Garfield playing very open rolls in 1969 and I, being a tenor drummer, believed I could have cut the line.

Al Nichols once told me that if Lucy's had not disbanded in 1969, he was planning on leaving Garfield and joining iSt. Lucy's for the 1970 season.

I was not a big fan of Tuthill after hearing his 1969 parts and what he had done to us in 1969. I remember how freaky he looked when he was judging that night. He was wearing a baseball cap and had hair sticking all out. I remember as we were coming up the field during the OTL he came from nowhere , flying through the air and jumping in front of the drum line. I have to say he won me over with the stuff he wrote for the Cabs though.

Edited September 26, 2007 by cabalumsw

[ajlisko]

Andy:

Believe it or not, Manny got thrown out of Lucy's during the middle of 1969 and then joined BS. I'll never forget this. We sponsored a show in Harrison and it had rained during the day, thunderstorms. The gates had just opened for the show and Manny drives through the gates onto the field and starts spinning out on the field. As fast as he came in to the Stadium, he drove out. To say the least, he marched his last show with St. Lucy's. What a character. I believe Manny went to Sky after BS.

Yes, Flowers was on drums in 1969. Sasso and Frank Pisillo were horn instructors and I believe Bob Bunz (sp) wrote some music as well.

I remember the hotel. It was the Mark Inn near the airport and it is still in business. The rooms had orange wall to wall carpeting and the carpeting ran up the walls to the ceiling. I remember it being hot and humid and we worked our butts off that week believing we had a decent shot.

John Flowers made a cassette for me of our performance at 1969 Nationals.

Manny and I met on the I&E circuit in the 60's ... if fact I remember the first show he ever competed in ... what a talent ... the crew back then at I&E's was full of characters, led by Manny and Gaff ... he first joined NY in 66 and played with them thru 68 ... then back to Lucy's, Sky, BS, Sky, BS, Sky ... he did a weekend with the Hurcs in 67 ... LOL ... and I think a short stint with the NY Kingsmen that year also ... he was everywhere ... the last year I remember him with Sky was in 73 ... then his untimely death in 75 ... a true tragedy ... I can still hear Larry Dougard reliving that night ...

Oh well ... it was Bob Bunce of Selden fame ... and I agree - Tuthill was a scary sight in that baseball cap and free-flowing hair ... I remember he used to judge guard shows for some extra money in the winter in that getup ... LOL ...

Guess instructors back then were more interchangable than the players ... except for Manny!

I could go on forever with the stories ... as most contributing here can ...

Later,

Andy

[Diceman]

I would like to know also since I'm sitting here listening to Lucy's on Diceman Radio. I also had alot of people from my corp go to Lucy's in 68...chico, Fred Henry and Timmy Fogg. Ok diceman got that one wrong...it was BS....but I still want to know about Don and Lucy's.

Got what wrong?

Is the '69 show (Dream) actually Blessed Sac?

Or are you talking about the '68 "Evening" show?

Let me know so I can fix it!

Thanks,

[MikeD]

Mike:

Danny Raymond was with Garfield in 1968.

Yep...confirmed what I wrote above, but wasn't 100% sure of. Thanks.

I remember Garfield playing very open rolls in 1969 and I, being a tenor drummer, believed I could have cut the line.

Well, the opener, Gounod's "Queen of Sheba", was written in 12/8, so the rolls George wrote to fit were 16th-note-triplet rolls, hence the open sound.

Al Nichols once told me that if Lucy's had not disbanded in 1969, he was planning on leaving Garfield and joining iSt. Lucy's for the 1970 season.

Never knew that. I think his corps pre-Garfield was a small class 'B' corps called the Lakeland Goldenaires.

I was not a big fan of Tuthill after hearing his 1969 parts and what he had done to us in 1969. I remember how freaky he looked when he was judging that night. He was wearing a baseball cap and had hair sticking all out. I remember as we were coming up the field during the OTL he came from nowhere , flying through the air and jumping in front of the drum line. I have to say he won me over with the stuff he wrote for the Cabs though.

I always loved George's stuff. He wrote extremely musical parts that just fit the music like a glove. His timpani parts for Garfield in 71 were just amazing. He was kind of crazy-looking to be sure! There we were, the hair-above-the-ears Cadets looklng like we came right out of West Point, being taught by hippie-looking guys lke George, Bobby Hoffman, and Pete Emmons. :P

George got his percussion degree from the Manhattan School of Music, if my memory serves, and was a wonderful jazz set drummer. He used to play in a trio at the bar in a restaurant near Montclair State where I was going, so I would stop by and listen almost every weekend for a while.

[NYSkyliner]

He used to play in a trio at the bar in a restaurant near Montclair State where I was going, so I would stop by and listen almost every weekend for a while.

Tierney's.

[MikeD]

Tierney's.

Oh, yes, that's not the one I was thinking of, but you are correct. A real Montclair hangout back when I went to the school.

I don't remember the name of the place, but I used to walk there. It was on Valley Rd down the hill from Bohn Hall and then walk towards Rt 3/46. Not the Robin Hood, which is directly across from MSU, but down the road a half mile or so, just before the Rt 3 entrance ramp. Used to walk there before I had a car on campus.