The Drum Corps Activity is Healthier Than Ever!

[nemesiscorps]

^OO^

good posts from people who have paid attention (on a comparative level) from "then" and "now" ... (IMO)

I actual feel a spirit of decent debate and conversation here, and I may have "clicked into" a different point-of-view... maybe.

I have said here before and am saying again... drum & bugle corps may have lost some of it's appeal around the time Nintendo and computers really started to hit. A slow but

steady decline in participation, perhaps not SOLELY due to those things I mentioned, but certainly a contributory factor. School programs that became more academically

required, or even just more academically FUN... school sponsored athletic programs... and certainly school music programs, all offered more to parents and kids than what we

had available in the '70's.

The small "local corps" that rounded out the drum corps world were mostly active in local competitions, and rarely did they do much of a "tour" per say. Maybe one swing out

to a competition somewhere with a few parade stops and small shows along the way.

2006 was an exciting year for drum corps, I think in small part because of the buzz created by the alumni projects. 2007 looks to be shaping as exciting as well, with another

reunion project creating a little excitement. But most importantly, ALL the corps in all divisions are competing with spirit in their hearts at a talent level that is very high, even

in the lower ranking corps. They look like they're all having fun!!

Okay then, I'll say it.

Has anyone considerd that other activities have flourished because there is something to achieve in those areas that can't be achieved in DCI, like actually being competitive for a championship title? I'm far from being a "winning is everything" type, but the corps activity requires incredible sacrifices from individuals and organizations. We've all seen how trying to make such sacrifices has broken many organizations and individuals. It's a great activity with so many benefits, but when one faces the reality that there is only so far that an organization can go, you realize that you're on a treadmill going nowhere. Individuals and organizations don't necessarily desire to simply "win", but they do want to experience what winning can bring, such as fame fortune, etc... Because it is a competitive activity, that's always a factor, regardless of how much we want to talk about the other reasons for doing corps.

Let's see... 8 champions in 34 years, of which two of those units no longer exist (so take away two years for each year they won, 1972 Kingsmen and 1991 Star of Indiana). Two of the remaining 6 champions have only won the title for a combined three years (Scouts twice and Phantom once), so that takes us down to 29 years that FOUR remaining champions have been trading a trophy (B.D, SCV, Cadets, and Cavies)... 29 years! Is this phenomenon a reflection on those four corps, on the remainder of all other competing units during that 34 year history, a reflection of nearly 30 years of adjudicators, a reflection on society, or a reflection on the governing body that sets the standards and rules in our objectively judged activity. Being successful on the field means many things... like survival in an incredibly competitive arena. The NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, and others would never survive with a track record like DCI's. That's simply hard fact, and when a professional team can't be successful, there's no revenue, with no reveune there won't be an owner, and with no owner there's no team. When corps can't compete, people burn out, give up, or they bet it all in hopes of winning the jackpot toward success... winning championships or at least being a consistent contender. History shows that when organizations leap too far to "keep up with the Jones'", they routinely fall to their death.

To credit DCI with the advancement of WGI and others is an outrage. DCI has simply set wonderful standards in performance and design that others have used to continue to develop. Those other organizations built themselves through hard work and sacrifice, and continue to have to compete with DCI for market dollars. They are successful in spite of DCI, rather than because of anything that DCI has actually done FOR them. From its inception, DCI has structured itself for the "haves" in the corps activity, and there is no real future in DCI for the "have-nots", that is crystal clear. Thanks for being positive, but please be realistic. I think any celebrations should be reserved for the successes within those other organizations, not for the state of a truly dead activity.

It is those other organizations (DCI off-shoots) that are strong and healthy, but the drum & bugle corps activity (not DCI) has suffered beyond repair. And why did those other organizations "off-shoot" from DCI anyway? There's some history that needs to be reviewed here folks. Today we have barely any competing units, and those that are competing don't use bugles, they just use the name "drum & bugle corps". Isolate the corps activity in general from DCI and those other activities, and the only celebrations going on should be appropriately in the form of a wake.

Take that! (Then smile my friends:)

[dbc03]

I am glad the High school has taught people to read music. But in the same sense it was not meant to turn Drum Corps into a band. Already Cadets new name for THE MARCHING STORE site is Band Geek. I think you lost the point of the last post you replied about. I took it as though some of the younger members (with attitudes of being elite)of DCP have some overrated opinions that DCI is better than old time drum corps. If it was not for the old time you would not have the new age DCI . You see it breaks our hearts to see where this is going. We love drum corps no matter what the advances were. But know more and more it is turning into a band program. It is becoming a summer extension of marching band and not true Drum and Bugle Corps. Again my opinion.

Actually, YEAs new name for the marching store is band geek, but considering they host a ton of shows through USSBA it makes sense. Bank Geeks are DCIs target audience.

What's wrong with kids today thinking drum corps today is better than old time drum corps? I would have hated to spend my marching career thinking, "Man, this is awesome... but I wish we were as good as the 1948 Kalamazoo Kommunists"

Everyone realizes that without the old time drum corps we would never have had DCI, but that doesn't mean we have to live in the past and stay stagnant with piston rotor horns and symetric drill or what have you. The fact that drum corps has evolved is not todays corps way of saying "#### you" to the old corps, it's their way of evolving and continuing the tradition of excellence in the activity.

There have been hundreds of debates on here about drum corps being marching band, etc, so I won't open that can of worms. But if instrumentation and such are the only division between drum and bugle corps and high school or college marching bands in your mind then okeydoke, drum corps is a summer extension of high school marching band.

[dbc03]

Let's see... 8 champions in 34 years, of which two of those units no longer exist (so take away two years for each year they won, 1972 Kingsmen and 1991 Star of Indiana). Two of the remaining 6 champions have only won the title for a combined three years (Scouts twice and Phantom once), so that takes us down to 29 years that FOUR remaining champions have been trading a trophy (B.D, SCV, Cadets, and Cavies)... 29 years! Is this phenomenon a reflection on those four corps, on the remainder of all other competing units during that 34 year history, a reflection of nearly 30 years of adjudicators, a reflection on society, or a reflection on the governing body that sets the standards and rules in our objectively judged activity. Being successful on the field means many things... like survival in an incredibly competitive arena. The NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, and others would never survive with a track record like DCI's. That's simply hard fact, and when a professional team can't be successful, there's no revenue, with no reveune there won't be an owner, and with no owner there's no team. When corps can't compete, people burn out, give up, or they bet it all in hopes of winning the jackpot toward success... winning championships or at least being a consistent contender. History shows that when organizations leap too far to "keep up with the Jones'", they routinely fall to their death.

There is a really simple way for a corps to win a championship.

Be the best in the world. Until another corps does that the current big 3 will keep trading championships.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

What's wrong with kids today thinking drum corps today is better than old time drum corps? I would have hated to spend my marching career thinking, "Man, this is awesome... but I wish we were as good as the 1948 Kalamazoo Kommunists"

Exactly.

In the minds of some old-timers, it's OK for them to think that the drum corps they marched in the past is better(and they frequently do) but it's not OK for the marchers of today to think that what they are doing is better. They demand that the young marchers of today respect their era, but they do not extend that same respect to them.

Their double standard is elitest and disgusting.

[nemesiscorps]

There is a really simple way for a corps to win a championship.

Be the best in the world. Until another corps does that the current big 3 will keep trading championships.

So how does one become the "best in the world"? And who makes that decision on who the best is? You're going to have to do better than that for a response my friend. There are a ton of corps that have worked hard or harder than those corps trading that trophy for three decades. If it's so simple, why can't anyone else get it done? With the exception of the five years mentioned, no one else could make it happen. Simple... no way.

[dbc03]

So how does one become the "best in the world"? And who makes that decision on who the best is? You're going to have to do better than that for a response my friend. There are a ton of corps that have worked hard or harder than those corps trading that trophy for three decades. If it's so simple, why can't anyone else get it done? With the exception of the five years mentioned, no one else could make it happen. Simple... no way.

Working hard is much less important than working smart.

I marched in a corps that came in 16th place, and then also a corps that came in 1st place. We worked equally as hard in both corps (In some ways we worked harder in the 16th place corps). The 16th place corps did not work as SMART as the 1st place corps.

Obviously the judges make the decision on who the best is, and there are set criteria that they use. In order to be the best in the world you have to perform better than the other corps you are competing against according to those sheets.

You want to know why the other corps haven't won? 99% of the time they don't try to win. When the staff of Crown designs a show they aren't thinking "Lets make a show that will win DCI" The staff and kids don't rehearse like they want to win. They are content with coming it 4th, or 8th, or 12th.

Until corps start designing shows to win and start acting like they are real contenders they won't be.

[nemesiscorps]

Working hard is much less important than working smart.

I marched in a corps that came in 16th place, and then also a corps that came in 1st place. We worked equally as hard in both corps (In some ways we worked harder in the 16th place corps). The 16th place corps did not work as SMART as the 1st place corps.

Obviously the judges make the decision on who the best is, and there are set criteria that they use. In order to be the best in the world you have to perform better than the other corps you are competing against according to those sheets.

You want to know why the other corps haven't won? 99% of the time they don't try to win. When the staff of Crown designs a show they aren't thinking "Lets make a show that will win DCI" The staff and kids don't rehearse like they want to win. They are content with coming it 4th, or 8th, or 12th.

Until corps start designing shows to win and start acting like they are real contenders they won't be.

Wow.

That's pretty offensive to an endless number of corps over the decades. You obviously have no idea what their objectives are/were as an organization, as design team members, as instructional staff, nor as members. For you to suggest that these talented and hard working people are/were not as smart as others shows a lack of maturity on your part, and I don't mean that to be offensive. This line of thinking you hold is based upon nothing but you're opinion. I'd rather do an analysis of the facts and ask reasonable questions.

I'll also correct your statement on what it takes to be the best in the world. "In order to be the best in the world you have to perform better than the other corps you are competing against according to those... [JUDGES THAT EVENING]. Other judges, as well as other people more qualified from an educational and professional perspective may not agree, so the best in the world is always up for debate in our subjective system. If you know anything about this activity, which I assume you do, you'll retract that statement and acknowledge that the show design (as well as WHO designs it) plays a major part in who wins.

When I speak of "winning", I'm also talking about being the people's choice, being in high demand for placement on a sponsor's show lineup, and achieving the envy and respect of your competitors, regardless of placement. Similar to the "once upon a time" Madison Scouts. Few corps can hope to attain this in DCI today. It is reserved for a select few, and I just think people (spectators, members, and corps organizations in general) are tired of trying to achieve the unachievable. Thankfully there are now other outlets to experience the real spirit of competition, and a realistic hope that one day... maybe. Other organizations and art forms grow, while DCI dwindles to what some suspect they want to be, a small collective of semi-professional marching units that manufacturers will cater to, and all others will pay to see.

The smaller the collective, the larger pieces of the pie they'll share among themselves.

Today drum corps ( I use the term lightly) is an inbred activity where everyone at the top levels knows everyone else, from directors to judges to executive level officials. These few individuals are the movers and the shakers, and they make the rules and standards for all others to follow. They've marched together and grown together for years and years, and several have actually found ways to make money (good money) doing drum corps. I believe they've lost their ability to look at the activity objectively anymore. As a result, they've rationalized away their behavior and decisions. They can no longer go back because for them there is too much to lose. We're now an art form with no true identity. Our roots are within the drum corps activity, but the reality of our "evolution" is yet to be acknowledged and defined.

These are my own thoughts based upon my 25 year history and experiences in the corps activity as a marching member, staff member, board member, and former Div. I corps director. However, I must admit that you're right when it comes to me personally, I never had a true desire to "win" at any cost, and it was never a focal point of my efforts in corps. I'm proud of that and wouldn't trade my experiences in for a championship ring. I, like others, am clearly not "smart" enough to figure it out how to attain that level of success.

And once again I find myself bored with it all. Time to depart the planet. I hope someone is here if I ever get back, at this rate it doesn't seem likely.

Peace be with you.

[The Oz]

You are probably correct when you say that drum & bugle corps, specifically, is educating fewer young people today than, say in 1970 or 1960. Fewer corps = few kids participating. But discussing that without understanding or acknowledging the associated considerations is useles.

<snips for brevity>

Look at it like the iceberg analogy: drum corps is the 10% you see above the water...the most visible part, but certainly not the largest or most "dangerous". What we have below the water--WGI, BOA, USSBA, and all the numerous local circuits and organizations--is much larger than it was when drum corps had much bigger numbers.

But my question is this...do we really *need* to be any larger than we are today? Do we really need to have 50, 75 or 200 D1 corps?

One of the beautiful things about the NFL is the upward mobility of teams.

I say DCI is just about at an ideal size...

M

M,

Well, you have, to some degree, made my point. You can’t claim “success” for drum corps without including other forms of marching music. The numbers don’t allow any other conclusion. Without counting marching bands, indoor guard, and indoor percussion, there is a decline in drum and bugle corps. Drum corps is succeeding in its mission only by watching participants move to other forms.

And that is exactly my point. I see the most entertaining (to me) facet of marching music disappearing, or, at the least, dwindling. And practically many posters in this thread and its companion thread The Numbers Are Falling says something along the lines of, “I don’t share your pain. Everything’s fine. Drum corps is growing! You shouldn’t be such a pessimist. Marching band and indoor guard are taking its place.”

Do we “need” to be larger? Let’s look at the NFL that you cite. When I was a lad, there were twenty-six teams, and that includes the AFL teams added in 1970. Did they “need” to grow? Well they didn’t shrink.

Do we need 200 Division 1 corps? I don’t think we ever had 200 D1 corps. We had enough so that, here on the East Coast, I could get to a show practically any week and watch Garfield run up against St. Andrews, with a chaser of Blessed Sac and Blue Rock.

I’m going to run further with your NFL thinking. One of the reasons for the NFL’s success (as often cited in the media) is parity. Revenue sharing, the draft, and free agency make it possible for “worst to first” to really happen. Well, we have free agency in drum corps. But the result is that the big corps are flooded by auditions. The little guys aren’t. But as to revenue sharing …

Bottom line, if I want to see drum and bugle corps during the summer, outdoors, I have many, many fewer choices than I did years ago. And that concerns me.

[JimF-LowBari]

So what? It's their choice. They might have college or jobs in the way as well. Most people don't have unlimited time and money to spend on extraneous activities like drum corps. If they are going to put off school or use all of their money, it had better be worth it in their eyes. There are unlimited reasons to march drum corps, and unlimited reasons why people pick the corps they do. You can't just boil it down to "not wanting to march Div II/III=the wrong attitude for corps".

Then there are people who aren't satisfied with their lives unless they have the best or belong to the best. Nothing wrong with trying to be better but these folks are miserable if life ain't perfect for them.

To make it worse they look down at people who don't have this attitude. Or to put it in Drum Corps terms "How could anyone march in a Div II/III corps". Sorry but see this attitude in more than a few posts.

Those were the people I was posting about.

Edited October 10, 2006 by JimF-xWSMBari

[JimF-LowBari]

I marched in a corps that came in 16th place, and then also a corps that came in 1st place. We worked equally as hard in both corps (In some ways we worked harder in the 16th place corps). The 16th place corps did not work as SMART as the 1st place corps.

Corps I was with came in last (15 out of 15) at DCA Prelims in 1974 and over the next couple of seasons (1974-1980) worked up to 5th place Finals finish without going down once. From what I saw first hand the biggest differences over the years had to do with experience of members and effectiveness of staff. Also pulling in some members from other more successful corps who knew what it took to be more competative was a big plus.