Dot books or Charts?

[FH4life]

ahhh, i see. bd with 11 rings and 20 jim ott high brass titles... cadets with 9 championships...

i guess those corps are okay too...

excuse me, the relation "high brass title" - "drill learning method" is... ???

winning 5 titles in the last 7 years is a good explanation of what "consistency" means I think... btw DCI exists only since 1972, Cavaliers won several American Legion and VFW titles.

I think those titles, that made the Cavaliers the rulers of the 00's, pointed out at least two points:

- innovative and effective approach to ensemble music;

- superb visual design and execution.

I know Cavaliers have been using the dot to dot system also before 2000, but if that's what makes them so good... I think it can work. not everywhere, but in Rosemont for sure.

[FH4life]

in my post DCI teaching experience, the only way to get a block to rotate in a clean way is to make people march dots. and I also think the contraction makes the move look cooler ;-)

[GeorgeHester]

Yeah, the dot system continues to be completely misunderstood.

Agreed!

[FJTDC]

If a line is at an angle and it is going to a front, if you take a straight line path to that spot, the spacing will close a little and then open up again at the end. I'm sorry Mr. Cavalier if you don't understand that. Have you ever used a protractor or compass? The point is clearly demonstrated.

Can u explain this a different way possibly? I don't see how it is not possible to keep a straight path and keep even intervals? I'm an engineer and I don't exactly get this idea. So I assume I just need it to be reexplained.

[Hrothgar15]

Set 1

Set 2

Set 3

This is from Cadets 2000. The block is rotated 45˚, but the rotation is split into two sub-paths. Keep in mind the members are taking exact straight line paths during each, but the fact that it is split into two subsets creates the illusion of a curved path. The block does expand and contract, but this is is kept to a mininum do to the splitting into subpaths. Basically, the members are able to take straight paths and still create a natural block rotation.

Pretty cool!

[Vanguard07]

Apparently the Cavaliers do not use curved paths, so my question is how do they avoid this effect?

Uh? If that's true then they should have attended some more technique blocks. Upon further review of the 2004 there are curved paths all over the place, or a TON of one count moves...

[MagicBobert]

We use charts for learning/cleaning drill, but we transfer our position on the charts into dot books for whenever we're on the field (i.e. ensemble rehearsal).

Never march curved paths? How can that be? That would make marching many sets waaaay too easy.

[RegimentContra94]

Agreed!

Then please set us straight. Twice Cavaliers have said "misunderstood," yet none of you will explain it at all.

Can u explain this a different way possibly? I don't see how it is not possible to keep a straight path and keep even intervals? I'm an engineer and I don't exactly get this idea. So I assume I just need it to be reexplained.

Think of a circle, with a horizontal line bisecting it. If that line is to rotate around and become a verticle line and intervals between the players maintained, a curved path is necessary, or a heck of a lot of 1 count straight paths.

[GeorgeHester]

Uh? If that's true then they should have attended some more technique blocks. Upon further review of the 2004 there are curved paths all over the place, or a TON of one count moves...

I always hesitate before I say anything on here because I tend to over-explain things and just can't keep it short and simple.

This is kind of interesting to bring up, because I was not on staff, nor a member of the particular year, but I was told by someone that the 2003 Cavaliers opening 24 sets were actually ALL 4-count drill moves.

So, as exaggerated as it might sound to break it down into 1-count moves, etc. for the 2004 show, maybe they did curve a few... it happens.

But they did march somewhere around 200+ charts in '03... and the majority of them were from the more intricate drill sequences... like the opening/closing spin cycle stuff... the deli slicer, etc. All were 4-counts at a time, which gives somewhat of an illusion of curved paths for some, depending on the counts they hit, etc.

Someone unfamiliar with this technique could easily chime in and say "well, why don't you just set it as a 24 count move where this person changes direction here and goes this way and on count 9 this other person changes direction and goes that way, etc."

I don't know if that's what they would actually say, but this is one of the things that makes what the cavaliers do compared to some of the other corps out there (not all) very different in the teaching/cleaning approach from. Rather than having a 24 count move where you have things change within the move, they sometimes break it down into 6 moves that are all 4-counts each to get the exact same effect with a teaching style/technique that allows for a very precise and exact set for every point you see something change.

Again, not to say that it's the only way to do things, but it's the way it's been done there for decades. Those of us that come from that organization (more for those from the late 90's until now) are taught to understand everything from the midste of a move and even the midset of the midset, which is often charted in the drill. It's not that it's useless or overdone... it's just the exact same thing everyone else does, just with a bit more emphasis on the specific positions, step size and of course, straight line path.

Sound like it's a little over the top and too much?? One of the things that people who have never marched there might not realize how difficult it is and how The Cavaliers make it look really easy. No, we're not talking about feet or marching technique here... we're talking about the drill and the way it's taught...

But there's nothing wrong with a little curved path here and there... you gotta do it when it comes to follow-the-leaders. I am positive that the snake thing that The Cavaliers did in 2006 (toward the end) was all curved... but at the same time, I am positive it was broken down into midsets, and possible midsets of the midsets. And to better sum up the reason they do this... one word - Consistency.

I hope that made sense... ha! :)

Edited December 12, 2006 by GeorgeHester

[cire]

at BD you learn by dots, use drill, dot books, etc.. but you adjust to the form.

at Cavies you go by YOUR dot. aka.. dot divers. they are basically taught to get to their dot, and nothing else matters.. you get to your spot.

the thought behind dot diving, is if everyone is in their spot perfectly, everytime.. the form will always be perfect.

and the thought behind forms is that, noone is perfect and you wont have a perfect form everytime, so you learn to adjust to it and correct mistakes.

which one works better? they both do. they are just different styles.

personally, i think you should march the form, not dot dive. everyone in the audience can see your form.. the judges can only see a form, they dont know where your dot is, but ill guarantee you that they can tell if you are a step outside of the form..

imagine you are a visual staff going to critique.. and the visual judge says.. well, it was all great... but there was one member who was about 3 yards out of the form for half the show. what do you say? "yeah.. but he was in his spot!"

dot diving works for cavies, form marching works for bd. whatever works for whoever.. doesnt really matter. but i will say that if you look at it in a high school teaching scenario, i would just about always recommend to use drill pages, a dot book, and teach them how to march forms.