Liahona Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) I am a long time drum corp fan, marched until I aged out years ago. I have also have made my living since 1983 as an audio engineer, mostly studio recordings, but I have done my share of live sound mixing on tour as well. I have won many awards, one being a Grammy Award.When I heard that DCI had passed the rule allowing amplification for the pit, I thought it was the beginning of the end. Then they passed the rule allowing synthesizers.....oh boy. In the shows I saw this past season, Murfreesboro and Seveirville, I can tell you that having any amplification at all is only going to make things worse, in any stadium. Whoever is "mixing" for these corps, they will never be positioned to be able to hear and mix correctly, and they aim their speakers so the "mixer" has to over compensate for not being able to hear them. I imagine that next year they will begin placing microphones on the field and other places, thus starting what will become a sound war. Drum corps need to eliminate amplification all together. A corp should be able to "mix" themselves acoustically, through drill design and movement on the field. Adding amplification is only creating a slippery slope that will continue until everything is put through a microphone and speaker system. Drum corp, in it's initial design was not meant to be amplified. This is not evolution of the art, only a way for additional non acoustic sounds to be incorporated (voice over narration,synthesizers). just my .02 cents Impressive resume....I would have to agree with you on this one..I'm hoping that it will be just a fad. Edited August 11, 2009 by Liahona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 First on the field as a performer: Not bad. The echo is barely noticeable on field level, probably because the sound takes a while to hit any hard surface from the field. It is very quiet on the field though. I felt like my corps sound was being eaten up, there were times I couldn't hear things I usually could hear, even in the other two domes. I think this had to do with the huge space, and how far away the stand were. The first level went really far back, and most of the time we project above the first level so our sound never got back to us, unlike bloomington which was a concrete wall right in front of you. Also something just ate up the sound on the field... I think it might have been the curtain. I went on while the stand were quite as full also... and crowd reaction was no readable... I could see the clapping, but not hear it. Not that it matters, because I get my energy from my corps not the crowd. From the stands: I moved around a little... spent most my time in the 500 level. 538 i think? on the side 2 40. In the first row of that section. Just a wash of sound... I was right behind the glass also, so a lack of sound... during a few shows I would lean over the glass though and the volume would make a noticeable increase, but still a wash of sound. After coming back from getting overpriced nachos I stood at the top of the level under the overhang from the 600 level. GREAT SOUND AND CLARITY! still can hear the echo after releases, it was loud and clear though. went back to the seats and was disappointed.... after cadets go on, get kicked out of the seats after the ########s who were in the lot the entire time except for the top two kicked us out of their seats... they said they did the same thing during semis too.. I told them thanks for coming in and watching my corps perform our last show of the season.... sorry, thats a different issue that I could go on forever about. Anyway I got a god deal out of it. Went under that overhang again and walked over to the fifty to watch crown and BD. Awesomeness... Probably the best place in the house... almost wished I was handicap.. so I could have a seat there, but was also very thankful that no stadium staff cared that we were standing there... During troop and BK I sat on the goal line in the 300 level.... completely dead... couldn't hear a thing... sounded like it was coming from a warm up spot outside of the stadium. That stadium is freaky acoustically... probably because it is so huge, and then has so many weird angles, and the roof is a mile away from the field. Low sounds get lost the most... Awful place for finals... awful place for finals... lets go to bloomington for the next 8 years please, and thank you... I sat on the bleachers there for all 12 corps, but all the shows were so awesome that I stood up after each one... and hey we are there to see drum corps, not be all comfortable in the AC... it's a ####### summer outside activity, who the #### cares if it is hot out. And the ####### dance party the corps had to come out to for retreat was completely ridiculous and a sad awful day for drum corps, it was embarrassing. Oh well, at least I was happy with the end of my season... DCI ####ed up with this deal though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 agreed......unfortunately, DCI may turn a deaf ear to complaints unless they see attendance drops of 25-50% over the next few years........ I'm willing to do my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsMom Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The acoustics were definitely different. I don't know if I just was starting to get used to it, but it sounded better at finals than at semis. It might have been because there were more people at finals to absorb the sound. In large music halls they usually hang baffles from the rafters to absorb the sound. Maybe something like that is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Also found this article from Indy.com:http://www.indy.com/posts/stadium-works-to...ics-for-chesney “The (building authority) always had money in the budget to address acoustical issues, once we identified them,” said John Klipsch, executive director of the building authority. “We knew we wouldn’t identify them until after the building opened and a concert played here.” So while the article refers to the Chesney concert, the same may be true for DCI. This may have been a sort of experiemental year to gauge the existing acoustics to see how to best improve them. In light of the dci.org article where they say it's in the contract to remedie the acoustics to DCI's satisfaction, I would say that's likely the case. It also seems to give DCI an out if LOS can't correct the acoustics to their satisfaction. From reading this article and the one you linked earlier from DCI.org, it seems as if the 'out clause' in the contract is less of an agreement that they can leave, and more an agreement that if the acoustics are not up to DCI's standard, the stadium will redouble efforts to get the acoustics up to that standard. I'm not sure how that will be remedied - extra acoustical paneling? Curtains for the end zones? Open roof? But it seems like, if something is to be done, now is the time for fans to voice their opinion. I would remind everyone who is interested in voicing such opinions that tact is the way to go. Sending an email like "I WILL NEVER RETURN TO LUCAS OIL STADIUM DCI IS TEH DEVIL!!!!!!!!!111!!!!" are going to do no good. A well-thought, polite email voicing concerns, offering level-headed and intelligent suggestions and supporting DCI's interests will go a whole hell of a lot further. Remember, DCI is people who love drum corps too. They want the activity to be just as awesome as the fans do. Edited August 11, 2009 by Lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yabetterbelieveit Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 From a www.dci.org August 9, 2006 article concerning the move to Indy:"How can DCI do this, without knowing what drum corps will sound like inside the stadium? [...snip...] The experience DCI has had now in three domes gives the organization significant confidence that a hard structure retractable roof will allow for a successful acoustical event, sight unseen. If the acoustics are indeed a problem at Lucas Oil Stadium, remedies to DCI’s satisfaction are included as a part of the agreement." http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=9...05-38490654756a Then this should be a no brainer for DCI, right?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I was in section 240, row 9, right on the 50 for all three nights (managed to get in the same general area for Open Class finals, as well. The sound was not bad at all; there are some echoes especially notable from the snares, and there is no need/desire for the pits to be amped. I have never been to a dome show before, but the folks behind us said this beat the RCA Dome any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Our entire group (8 in all) agreed it wasn't as bad as expected, and we really didn't have any problems with it. For the record, of the 8, seven have marched and 3 still are, one is a high school band director and I have been to championships every year since '94 (and everyone else has been going longer than I have). FWIW, one of our group did have occasion to hear some of the shows from the openings near the end zone and said that there, the horns seemed to be getting lost. I have read posts here about hearing the AC, but I never noticed it and it couldn't possibly be any worse than the annoying buzzing of the lights in the Rose Bowl. I did hear a rumor that the corps weren't overly pleased with the sound on the field, but as I said all I heard was a rumor and there really no specifics as to what "they" didn't like. Every corps knew well in advance that the championships would be held in a dome this year, and they should have designed their shows accordingly. The people posting here that are foretelling financial doom & gloom for DCI must know something that DCI hasn't been informed of yet. On Saturday morning, Mr. Acheson reported that although this certainly would not be a record setting year for attendance, considering the economy DCI was pleased with the amount of seats sold, and that DCI would be ending the year in the black and in good financial health. I have heard that the reason the roof was closed, is that with it open, there is little to no air movement inside and we would have all baked in there. It was also very pleasant to have a five minute walk from our hotel to the stadium and not have to fight traffic before and after and some of the ridiculous prices for parking like the rapist Bob Kraft charged in Foxboro, or Madison where there is NO parking to be found. Everyone is singing the praises of Bloomington, and although it was a nice stadium, the seating was not designed for some of our more "mature" figures and especially during finals, we were packed in tight. We were fortunate to find lodging in Bloomington last year so that we didn't have to make the hour-plus trek to and from Indy, but I much preferred where we stayed this year. We will have no problem going back to Indy next year, and if they can improve on the acoustics, so much for the better. I will reserve judgement on the CD/DVD products until I can listen to them, but I would expect that with technology today they will be able to "clean" them up if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leland Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I will reserve judgement on the CD/DVD products until I can listen to them, but I would expect that with technology today they will be able to "clean" them up if necessary. I've tried fixing recordings of junk, and as the saying goes, "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear." The CD/DVD audio won't sound any better than what we heard in the theaters -- lots of pit, LOTS of synth bass, with the other hundred musicians somewhere in the background. The same mic setup is used for the CD/DVD mix, and unless they had secretly installed a set of mics by the neon Lucas Oil sign at the top of the 200 level, they simply did not record a better-balanced mix. Unfortunately, placing mics further back would have also picked up a lot more reverb... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cop Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Hmm.. I haven't moved in yet :(but I wentout for my dream corps, got cut, wasn't going to march... then was convinced by friend/horn seargant to fly 2000 miles to go march his corps. Was not a mistake at all. I'd still like to try out my dream corps... but it will probably never happen. Who did you march with? Who cut you from their corps first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Also found this article from Indy.com:http://www.indy.com/posts/stadium-works-to...ics-for-chesney "The (building authority) always had money in the budget to address acoustical issues, once we identified them," said John Klipsch, executive director of the building authority. "We knew we wouldn't identify them until after the building opened and a concert played here." So while the article refers to the Chesney concert, the same may be true for DCI. This may have been a sort of experiemental year to gauge the existing acoustics to see how to best improve them. In light of the dci.org article where they say it's in the contract to remedie the acoustics to DCI's satisfaction, I would say that's likely the case. It also seems to give DCI an out if LOS can't correct the acoustics to their satisfaction. so the contract allows the roof to be removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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