Drum Corps 2014 - The State of the Activity

[mingusmonk]

This section of DCP is about DCI Drum Corps. Lee is referring here in his article to DCI Drum Corps. He is talking about the 80's and today as it relates to Drum Corps. As such, we stay within the paremeters of his comments. In this context ...

But he ONLY directly refers to Cadets, Crossmen, SCV, Bridgemen and Blue Devils. So in order to remain true to the technical context of his constructed essay agreement, one cannot refer to other specific entities as they relate to the specified material. And even though he mentions DCA more than a handful of times, DCA will be not spoken here. With all of these rules considered ...

Edited August 27, 2013 by mingusmonk

[BRASSO]

But he ONLY directly refers to Cadets, Crossmen, SCV, Bridgemen and Blue Devils. So in order to remain true to the technical context of his constructed essay agreement, one cannot refer to other specific entities as they relate to the specified material.

:lookaround:/>/>/>/>/>

I agree. My comments to Charlie was to remind him that Lee R. was not referring to "the numbers of participants in the Marching Arts". Lee did not bring this up... Charlie did. My attempt was to bring Charlie back to what Lee was talking about. Thats what this thread attempts to do. I do realize that Lee's comments only referred to a handful of Corps. My remarks were confined to DCI corps as well. That said, if Charlie (or others ) want to start another thread topic on another site for a discussion on the numbers of participants, audiences, shows, etc from other entities in the Marching Arts beyond that of DCI corps of today and from that of the 80's, then thats cool too.

Edited August 27, 2013 by BRASSO

[seen-it-all]

Then perhaps maybe Lee should have titled his article "The State of DCI." As we know, there is more to "drum corps" than just DCI. And Charlie did also bring up some of the news items on DCI's facebook page referring to new corps/sound sport teams starting up worldwide and new drumlines, etc. It would seem to be the kind of news items that would be indicative of some kind of growth in "drum corps," though maybe not in the traditional sense of the activity as we have come to know it thus far. Exciting news nonetheless. I'm interested in learning more about it.

[KeithHall]

Wasn't just calling you out. I just happened to had seen the word "failure." No I am not anything on DCP but a former marching member and staff member of a few corps. Now I take time out to read posts on DCP.

Not calling you a bully but people in general. I like what Lee had to say and we should appreciate what he said because it is true. But then start the "assault" if you will on what he said. It was just his opinion and that's all.

Since I am the "one" who used "failure", I want to say that you're picking for picking-sake in a much more harsh way than I intended. (I changed the word selection above, FYI.) I carefully chose failure BECAUSE failure is usually overcome. "GRIEF" is something that usually stays with a person longer than failure. Besides giving me no credit for being thoughtful you then go on to call me a bully. Jeesh, Keith, give me a break, huh? Sorry, it's not the truth. I'm hardly deluding myself into believing that I'm "smarter" than Lee (although it's possible that I am, I don't know), and that was not the intention of my post. And what if I disagree with what he has to say? Am I labeled a "bully" still? Jeesh, give it up, Keith.

BTW, this "successful" and obviously talented Lee didn't mention anything at all about "negativism" and its impact on drum corps. Are you trying to make yourself seem smarter than he is?

Get off your high-horse, Keith. You're not the high prince of DCP, this s a discussion board and Lee put his article out there, I presume, to discuss, and I'll say whatever I ####-well want to say here until the mods intervene (which hasn't happened here to me yet as it has to you on FB).

Somehow I doubt that Lee, with his experience in the ruff-and-tumble world of Hollywood agency, got his panties in a twist nearly as much as you did.

[BRASSO]

Then perhaps maybe Lee should have titled his article "The State of DCI." As we know, there is more to "drum corps" than just DCI.

.. or alternatively, we can simply respond to what he decided to write about, ( ie, DCI, MM abilities, shows, audiences, etc ) and what he actually said, instead of commenting on something he decided not to write about, nor make any comments about. I think its actually more productive to discuss what he wrote about, and what he said, than comment on something he did not write about.. But whatever.

Scott Stewart cautioned us about this back in the mid 90's too. Lots of Legends, and DCI hall of Famers in the activity that have contributed so much to the growth of the activity have articulated similar comments that Lee is making here recently. We should acknowledge and heed their concerns re. audiences, imo.

Edited August 27, 2013 by BRASSO

[SFZFAN]

I think he makes all good points and it was well written. You should read his books as well. I enjoyed them.

[Slingerland]

Or, even worse, they "know" what we SHOULD like, because we're cretins without them.

I'd tend to agree. That being said, this year saw the strongest top 4 line up in a number of years, with four excellent shows that were unique from each other but each successful in doing what they were trying to do (and yes, that includes BD; Rite of Spring is supposed to be jarring).

The problem comes further down the line, where corps who don't have the chops are attempting big 'idea' shows, desperately trying to convince themselves that their big idea reads to the audience, despite all evidence to the contrary. The list of corps in that group is so large that I won't bother enumerating them; safe to say it includes a near majority of corps in the 5th to 21st rank, including a number of this year's finalists.

Simply too many Corky St Clairs out there who think they're Robert Wison, and are determined to use drum corps as their medium, since they're not having any luck getting traction in the real world of professional performing arts.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Slingerland

[seen-it-all]

.. or alternatively, we can simply respond to what he decided to write about,

We can do what we wish so long as we stay on topic. And the topic is the state of the activity. He has his views. Others have theirs. He focuses on one part of the activity in DCI. Others have brought up different parts which are still relevant to the topic and discussion, whether he brought them up in his article or not. I believe it's a wonderful jumping-off point into a really interesting (and "productive") discussion on the overall health and outlook for the entire drum corps activity.

Edited August 27, 2013 by seen-it-all

[charlie1223]

This section of DCP is about DCI Drum Corps. Lee is referring here in his article to DCI Drum Corps. He is talking about the 80's and today as it relates to Drum Corps. As such, we stay within the paremeters of his comments. In this context, as it relates to the numbers of young people participating in marching in DCI Drum Corps, it is undeniabled that less MM's are marching today in Summer competition DCI than in the 80's, and before that, the 70's. Is DCI responsible for the smaller numbers of participants ? In my view not totally responsible for it, but certainly its decisions have accelearated the loss of Corps, and with that, overall participation rates, imo. The question now remains how do we begin to grow an audience base, as its not acceptable to grow an audience by less of a percentage than the percentage of the increased costs of DCI and Corps operation. if we grow an audience by ( say ) 2%, but our annual costs exceed that to operate, then we really arn't growing as an overall activity at all... we are losing ground.

Is THIS an example of you staying with the parameters of someone's comments on a DCI World Class Discussion Board?

In my view, Peace and Military Preparedness are not mutually exclusive at all however. For example, in my view, Military Preparedness is a precursor and a requirement to maintain peace. Not to get historical here, but as we learned in our US History classes, it was the large cutback in the US military budget in the late 30's that primarily emboldened the Japanese Militarists to convince their Emperor to launch a preemptive miltitary attack on the military weakened US, and that resulted in our neccessity to go to War to defend that attack on the US. A rifle is both an instrument of Defense as well as an instrument of agressive War. The primarily pacifist Jews of Eastern Europe had few defensive rifles or firearms at all. So 6 million of them were rushed into cattle cars to be later murdered by their armed opponents. Thus, in my view a well armed " military preparedness " is more valuable toward maintaining peace, stability, defense, and order, than military unpreparedness and disarmament.

Edited August 27, 2013 by charlie1223

[charlie1223]

At the same time, I think DCI and DCA need to take a long hard look at the product they are selling, and get the show designers on the same page. The answer to giving new fans a better drum corps experience is not 100% technology (amplification, vocals etc.). If the drum corps fan base is going to grow, show designers must give the fans music and shows they can identify with. The judges must lose the culture whereby audience-friendly shows are viewed as less competitive, and being LOUD or stationary for too long is automatically written off as unmusical and/or uncompetitive. If a corps is not entertaining the fans, they are not doing their job. Period. We must entertain.

Secondly, the subjective judging system that was introduced in the 1980s had one huge negative effect on drum corps, which was to make drum corps homogenous. The activity competitively transformed over a decade or so to the point where the look, sound, approach, and even the cut of a corps uniforms is relatively standardized across the country, just different colors. The problem is not the actions of the top corps, the issue is that all of the other corps feel they have to emulate the top corps to remain competitive in a subjective judging system.

Think about this — A few years ago, one of the most effective parts of the Crossmen’s show was the use of capes during the un-judged field warm-up. Then they ditched the capes and performed the judged portion of the show without capes, presumably so their visual scores wouldn’t suffer. What sense does that make? Don’t we want a unique corps that wears a cape? Or a yellow banana coat? Or tennis shoes? Or sunglasses? Why does everyone have to look and sound the same?

"Show designers must give fans music and shows they can identify with"

Which shows specifically and which music specifically do you think audience members can't identify with? Your only example can't possibly be Blue Devils... A large portion of the music used this year was used in the past. There is a mix of classic and modern pop, classical, jazz, broadway, movie score, concert wind and a number of styles and designs to appease a wide breadth of audience. I was pleased that I have a number of shows that could identify with through design and musical elements... So the question is which "fans"? which music? which shows?

"Audience Friendly Shows are viewed as non-competitive"

How can this be true if the fan favorite award (when they did it) the past few years has been a top 5 corps (Carolina Crown)? Tell me, was SCV's 2013 production of Les Mis not Audience Friendly or is 4th place viewed as "non-competitive?

"being loud or stationary for too long is automatically written off as un-muscial and/or uncompetitive"

This is only in your mind. Blue Devils 2009 should put this idea right to bed. LOUD and SITTING STILL for a long period of time... won 1st.

"the look, sound, approach, and even the cut of a corps uniforms is relatively standardized across the country, just different colors."

Is that why Carolina Crown's 2013 uniforms were widely embraced as catatoniclly boring and unoriginal? and no one made a fuss about it because, as you claim, it is a standardized look and color. Or maybe The Cadets are actually behind the curve since they have maintained the same look, color and style of their uniform since the 30's and any variations made were never part of a controversy. I know I always get confused and can't distinguish between The Cavaliers and Phantom Regiment (their "hats" are practically the same.)

Look, you need to really stop and enjoy what you have in front of you. You get so caught up in what you think DCI ISN'T instead of what it IS. And if you actually did that you'd realize that its not as bad or UN-entertaining as you think. You literally have to let yourself enjoy it and stop distorting what you're viewing with your nostalgic past.

"Don’t we want a unique corps that wears a cape?"

Edited August 27, 2013 by charlie1223