Is DCI becoming a 'non-marching/little drill' activity?

[Cappybara]

3 hours ago, PRPhan4ever said:

I getcha -- and I agree--- IN PART! But when you have shows with more pre-recorded audio, sound samples and synth than actual NOTES being played as a brass line... I take issue with THAT portion of the non-drill/playing aspect.  

 

What corps does this? 

[StunnedMonkey]

DCI hasn't really been a "marching" activity in some time. Choreographed movement? Sure. But they don't really march. Not much anyway.

DCI is more Musical Theater on the Green than a marching activity. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to individuals to decide. Personally I was already struggling with the direction, but the absurd costumes this season have put me over the edge.

[MikeN]

My kid's open class drill book has dozens, and dozens, and dozens and dozens more rebuttals to this argument.  Can't imagine what WC drill books look like now.

Mike

[saxfreq1128]

6 hours ago, PRPhan4ever said:

After seeing  a few shows live, and MANY on FloMarching and the "site which will go unnamed", it is becoming apparent (IMHO) that the refined judging system and panels are seemingly giving higher scores for content and performance rather than doing both while actually MARCHING drill?  I guess I may be wrong, or old school, BUT some corps (both classes) seem to be scoring very high in visual & GE and seemingly - marching/drill is secondary to sitting, standing, posing, crawling or laying on the field or on a prop.  

Is more merit given to what you "park & blow" on/under/over or running around/posing to synth/voice overs and sound bytes than actual drill?  It seems that this as well as the amplification/electronics thing is escalating to a point where "I" feel it's difficult to judge !

JUST FOR THE SAKE or an example I will use BD... they play alot of notes, they play them VERY well... they play them while standing, walking, sitting, running, posing etc... whereas, the #2 corps is hauling ### in their closer to amazingly fast drill.   Seemingly, All are pointing to the amplification issue of SCV an their 'floating' mics on brass... how is that different than the 6 mics BD has?   Has DCI become a visual activity that is being judged on it's ability to please the eye and ear while having props all over, or, are we seeing a departure, be it slight at present away from drill in it's purest form?

I am a trained brass player, well educated and understand the fact BD plays in the upper registers alot! They do it like no other -- That's how it's been .... but as we can see, Bluecoats are now emulating this same type of sound it seems... same type of show design, staging, props etc - so am i wrong in saying if a corps feels it has to redesign their shows in the likes of what the judges/panels are scoring high like this years (and others) shows of BD, does drill, and how fast or well you perform it matter anymore?  Looking at sheets from midwest to East regionals, it appears the favor is given to the stationary or slow moving brass than those moving at a high velocity while STILL producing great sound. 

Man. All I have to say is: props to SCV for convincing people they march while playing much more than they really do, this year. Genuinely. That's a feat of design in itself. It's almost as if they're wearing Green. 

Not a criticism, by the way. I'm not a marching-while-playing hardliner.  But I do think some of us are getting played. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by saxfreq1128

[Treefidy]

32 minutes ago, saxfreq1128 said:

Man. All I have to say is: props to SCV for convincing people they march while playing much more than they really do, this year. Genuinely. That's a feat of design in itself. It's almost as if they're wearing Green. 

Not a criticism, by the way. I'm not a marching-while-playing hardliner.  But I do think some of us are getting played. 

Not sure what you are watching, but I'd love to see a comparison of drill books between SCV and BD...

[MikeRapp]

Yes.

Definitely, obviously.

I don't think that is a bad thing. I definitely miss the days of Frameworks and Machine, but I also love what is happening now. It's all ###### hard.

I don't think a lot of what corps do now is as difficult as what they used to do. But, those corps and shows had none of the guard design and demand. Or how to make it one show, and not two. Overall it is much harder, as a whole, imho.

No matter what your preference, kids love what is happening now. They just do. Look at the high school buses lined up at Nashville, dozens and dozens. Maybe 18,000 people, mostly kids. They love it, and that's what matters.

Edited August 10, 2017 by MikeRapp

[TwoValves]

13 hours ago, ftwdrummer said:

IIRC, much of the justification for Cadets winning Brass in 2015 was because of the drill they were marching while doing it.

According to whom?  Did actual judges from that show say that publicly?

[pudding]

This year in particular there seems he have been a severe trend in design toward "tricking" the viewer into thinking that there is more going on than there actually is. That is, when taken as a whole there is music and motion happening at the same time, but frequently not from the same sources. Among others, the SCV mic'd brass ensemble playing while the rest of the hornline executes visual maneuvers is a prime example of this; unless you are looking for it, you hear brass and see movement and think "oh, they are moving and playing", when in reality the players are not moving and the movers are not playing. On a related but slightly different level, BD featuring the guard while the brass stands still and plays their butts off is another example; the eyes are dazzled, the ears are astounded, and it seems like there is both visual and musical demand. However, the demand exists discretely, where the visual and musical demands do not overlap, and so the individual demands are significantly lower than if there were simultaneous demands. 

Lets use two examples from Jagged Line. Toward the end, there is a very fast, visually impressive double snake drill; the marchers are not playing, but soloists are, so it seems as though music and visual are occurring at the same time, when the responsibilities are split. Now compare to earlier in the show, when the hornlike is doing a similar follow-the-leader, but this time they are playing a difficult hocketed rhythm (at the end of their opener). This is what true simultaneous demand looks like, compared to later where it is cleverly designed "fake" simultaneous demand. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by pudding

[Stu]

16 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

My devotion to this activity sort of waned (well there's no "sort of" to it) with the loss of bugles...

I spent the past few hours doing some research for you.

While the bugle can be traced back thousands of years, the US military standardized version that birthed today’s DCI occurred in 1920.  In that year the US military designated the M1892 as the bugle of military regulation.  For the Marines it was originally keyed in C or D with a crook that could be added to play in F.  For the Army it was keyed in G or Bb and also had a crook that could allow for the Key of F.  Even though rotor valves date back to the mid 1890’s each official M1892, irrespective of the Key, had no rotor valves and no piston valves; again the military Bugle of choice at that time had no valves.  In 1920 the American Legion and the VFW designated the Army M1892 Non-Valve Bugle keyed in G to be used in their organizations which was the genesis of the Military Drum and Bugle Corps; but their ensembles consisted mainly of military aged adults and a few youth.  But what about DCI, the Junior side of the activity?

The Junior Drum and Bugle Corps activity we know today as DCI is traced back to just after WWII in 1946 or 1947 when the American Legion and VFW halls, as well as some Catholic Leagues, became places for youth to go, pick up the older M1982 Non-Valve G Bugles and military drums, and learn to play in local junior drum and bugle corps.  And as the activity grew, better and better instruments were procured, However, once valves were added, the brass instrument known as the Bugle became a hybrid and thus no longer was a real military issue Bugle by the time DCI was conceived in 1972.  So, if your devotion to the activity began to wane with the loss of the Bugle, that happened some 60 some odd years ago before DCI was even conceived; and if you actually do desire Junior Drum Corps of today to use the true Bugle of a true Drum and Bugle Corps, you must advocate DCI to designate the model M1892 'Non-Valve' Bugle in the key of G as the Bugle to use today.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Stu

[ajlemm]

19 hours ago, snare_guy_83 said:

Every corps is simultaneously the best and worst of all time with everything they do or don't do.
-DCP 

Schrodinger's drum corps...