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Can't be expected to talk intelligently about a period of time I wasn't around for? Whoops, better go return my history degree and credential to the school I got it from….

I watched it for free. I taped it for free. I got PBS through Rabbit ears on my TV and didn't pay to have it, since I didn't have cable. Brasso, I appreciate your perception and the knowledge you believe you have, but you have yet to put up numbers. Here's one for you if you didn't see my other comments. More people saw DCI Minnesota last year in a 1 day event, through live spectators and people watching on the Fan Network than the total attendance of ANY year of the same type of event that DCM used to host at NIU in Dekalb. What's your answer to that? Or, better yet, what's your answer to the fact that there were over 950 corps in the US alone in the 50's and 60's and down to 446 in 1972 (of course, those 446 did not all attend DCI champions, and includes any active junior and senior corps) and then down to 216 in 1982 TOTAL corps in the world including all types. Why does it have to be a talk about the last few years. Why can't we sit here and talk about the decline during the "glory" years as most people see the mid-70's through lat 80's. Or, if maybe try giving some actual numbers to prove your point. I did, it's fun, and it's reality instead of opinion. And even though some where criticize my numbers, they are fact.

Wow, you've got me so figured out. I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about at all. Or maybe, just maybe, I do say things that are right, but you won't believe anyone but yourself, so you say they're all inaccurate. That seems to be what you do around here. Others on here do seem to take what I write seriously and enjoy it. You seem to be the only one that has a problem with what I put on here. But I do put stuff up that's sarcastic or not to be taken seriously. I'll be sure to attach little notes to it in the future just for your clarification.

No, your point was that attendance in 1981 and 1982 was higher than it's ever been for other Finals. The Montreal Finals always get talked up as being these massive events, and every time someone retells it, the attendance grows. DCI released the actual numbers for it, and it's below where most quote it. I think it was right in line with the other Finals venues, within a couple of thousand people. Maybe try not to take things so seriously? It was a facetious statement based on the ever increasing attendance at the Canadian Finals. Do I need a special font or something to show that it's not something to be taken so serious and black and white?

Wow, way to cherry pick and twist my words, thanks. Are you possibly a defense attorney, or a politician in real life? From a liability standpoint, things are better for kids today. Not having kids travel privately to shows lowers the risk of any potential car accident, and not having to push buses means less chance of an injury for the members. That's what I said. Not what you thought I said, or tried to twist my words to say. Drum corps is a safer activity now on the whole.

All of those things going away is probably a good thing, in terms of member safety and corps well-being. Not having kids pass out during shows because of dehydration, or injuring themselves pushing buses, or the fear of kids being car accidents driving to and from shows. The demand may be different, but I'm sure anyone involved with the liability of the members is very happy that those demands are now gone. And yes, they still get eaten by mosquitoes at practices and shows. Swamp tour still exists, and Minnesota and Kansas are still around.

No, in my opinion" Drum Corps BITD did not put the SAME demands on the performers " as that of today. The two have DIFFERENT demands, wholly different in the levels of demand. DCI Corps march approx 10 minutes of extremely high velocity drill that is undeniably very demanding. But they also have never stood at attention for 30 minutes on starting lines in wool uniforms undergoing inspections in stadiums BEFORE performance either.... or gotten eaten up by mosquitos standing at attention under the lights during these very lengthy inspections either. How many have pushed a broken down bus on tour ?... or had marchers share in driving the busses themselves on some occasions while on tour ?, or driven in cars 8 hours after getting out of work on Fri to practice and then march in a weekend competition, before then driving home, marchers bunched together in those cars, another 8 hours in these cars late Sunday nite( or early monday morning) in order to get up by 6am for a full days summer work with their employer monday morning ?.... and so many other " different demands " that could be mentioned here as well. Look, I am not denying todays marchers work hard, and their practices and on field performances are indeed intense and all that. But I've heard on here before that " the demands on todays participants in Drum Corps is " more demanding than BITD". I would simply reply that the " demands were different " and leave it at that.

Well said my younger brother. Just know that for every alumnus who no longer has your back there are thousands of us who do. It always upsets me that the most vocal "back in my day was the only way" people are from my era. I also always try to remind them that when we were marching I never once heard someone from 35 to 40 years before our time tell us that those rotors and valves, contras, tympanis, keyboards and any other new fangled stuff that were new in our day were destroying drum corps or if only we could've used REAL bugles and slept in pup tents then WE would know what real drum corps was. No, the alumni were so proud of us in '75 they had tears in their eyes when they'd be at rehearsal. Know that 99% of us do have your back and can't wait for the 2014 Scouts to hit the field in Madiosn on June 28th. I hope I have the honor to march with you this Thanksgiving in NYC "JuryDefender".

So this thread was about Madison Scouts and trombones and it's turned into an attendance squabble? Hmm.

Now, now fsubone, you can't come in here and use facts on actual attendance. We all know there were' 3.7 million in that stadium in 1981, and 4.5 million in there in 1982. Not to mention that on PBS they recorded the highest viewership of any television program EVER, I mean, even if 10 billion watch something 100 years from now, that won't be as many as watched the 81 and 82 championships. So glad for this thread. People like you, fsubone, come in and give facts, while others spout off what they heard or think, or wish, or want it to be, and for some reason, they can't be wrong.

See, for me, the "entertainment" requirement might be the deal breaker. As a person with over fifty years as a marching member, a judge, an instructor, and as a spectator, in the community of drum corps I can honestly say that I haven't been entertained in more than a couple of decades. This might well be my fault. Perhaps I'm not intelligent enough to appreciate the sophistication and subtlety of "modern" programming. I, as a consumer of the activity, am not being entertained. Great numbers of former participants in the activity seem to feel the same way, from what I've been able to ascertain. When we have voiced such opinions we have been vilified, patronized, and demeaned by the ever diminishing numbers who feel that today's programming is the ultimate. The few kids who are deemed talented and industrious enough to merit a spot within the likewise diminishing number of units still extant are performing at almost unbelievable levels. And good for them While I applaud their efforts and talents, I am underwhelmed by "entertainment value", and the "gelt uber alles" atmosphere of what it is they're doing. I marched. I played. I taught. I judged. I never considered drum corps to be a sport. It wasn't in the forties, the fifties, or the sixties, when everyone was welcome to participate. It isn't a sport now. Any suggestion that it is, is pure hyperbole.

I think there's been more controversy in WGI than DCI. Fantasia's 2012 show "A Good German" comes to mind. It had one particularly jolting part rewritten before finals and if I remember correctly, they asked that their show not be part of the online Championship broadcast. I don't think a drum corps would ever touch material like that. 2012 Pride of Cincinnati's "Preaching to the Choir" also had subject matter I don't think a corps would do. It was a beautiful show built around the question regarding the existence of God. If a corps were to do something similar, this forum would light up like a Christmas tree.

Lets see if this works..... Here is a picture of the bleachers at Maxwell Field: http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/pressofatlanticcity.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/a0/4a077c59-a883-51b6-8c07-4790e6bac08d/509c58231e6c3.image.jpg

You got that right.

It seems fewer and fewer actually READ on DCP. Context, meaning, and conversation are cast aside and instead there's simply reiteration of the some (in most cases already debunked) theory that can't stand on it's own at all. (oh and btw Brasso -- ostriches don't actually bury their heads in the sand. that's just fantasyland. i thought you didn't go there? )

It was arguably one of the finest musical performances I've witnessed from the Cadets, and I've been following them since '82. I still find myself enthralled by it.

Before you know it, 100,000 people will have been at those Finals events, and people were parachuting into the stands to see it. I thought they had released the real numbers, and they were lower than people had been quoting. But it seems to be one of those drum corps legends that grows with age.

Putting the moderator hat on for a moment...you can't call someone 'delusional' on DCP...that is a violation of the guidelines. Brasso skirts by that by calling a statement made delusional, but not the poster him/her self. As to the point of your post...you got called on something...you admit you goofed up in your prior comment...and then you attack the poster who called you on it anyway.

Strangely enough though, there was a 50% decrease of drum corps between 1972 and 1985. That decrease doesn't seem to get mentioned as much as the one since the end of the 80s….

I find it interesting that this poster, who identifies himself as a current member of the Madison Scouts and makes some salient and trenchant observations about trombones in specific, and loyalty in general, has been roundly ignored by everybody here. Am I missing something?

Also, the 10 thousand pound gorilla in the room that few want to admit, is that when the DCI units become full blown marching bands, where will the future loyalty of future marchers be for fundraising and future financial support ?... with the University Marching Band ( and that School ) that the marcher marched at his school, and thats been around for 50-100 years, and that the marcher has marched in for 4 years ?... OR.... the DCI Marching Band that one does for 9 weeks in the summer for a year or two ? You tell me ? Talk about a BIG potential problem down the road for these shortsighted DCI " brain trusts "... there it is right there, imo.

DCI is a business that operates 365 days a year. The relative results of one night in August - while important - does not begin to give us any kind of meaningful glimpse into the "state of the union" of the business as a whole. It continues to amaze me how many people go back 20 to 50 YEARS to make comparisons of these data points. The results for any VFW show from the 60's or Montreal in the early 80's is completely irrelevant to the results from 2011 in the environment that DCI operates in today. The conclusions drawn about the effectiveness of DCI as an organization - or drum corps as an activity - when making these selective memory types of comparisons defies logic. "Yup. IBM must really suck. Do you know how many millions of Selectric typewriters they sold back in the 70's? And their mainframe computer business hasn't been the same since the 60's. I'm amazed they are still around. They sure managed those businesses into the ground."

Here we go. DCP reverting to form. The crowd at this year's finals pales in comparison to the glories of old. It's really getting old folks. HH