kickhaltsforlife

I'm in SE PA did not receive anything yet.

Did you guys get a shipping confirmation or anything if you got it with FN? I also had to change my address over the summer... hoping they ship it to the new one, especially since the old one was two apartments ago.

Hopefully I get mine soon then!

One more thing... more on topic to the OP... No one can do what Crown is doing musically right now. Their music design and mainly brass performance is just on a different level from everyone else. BD, maybe SCV and Cadets could all play that book... BD probably the most proficient at it... but no way would it sound anything like what Crown sounds like. It's just the way they have been building that program at Crown. The way they get their members to commit to what they teach. The way they match sound, pitch, and articulation across the brass ensemble is just on a different level. I could care less what key it's in. I'm pretty sure they could do it all in the key of B if they wanted to. Any brass player should be impressed with what they are able to play with the simultaneous visual responsibilities. And if they figure out that drumline... oh boy. It will be truly something spectacular. And sorry if some fan/member/alumni of another corps gets all butthurt about this... but it is just the truth. Not saying your corps horns don't sound great... they just aren't Crown.

So from a brass guys viewpoint... I agree more with Garfield. But Jeff and Garfield aren't really arguing about much. All the books brass/perc are all extremely musical. The top 4 were all awesome. And it's probably a tie between SCV and Crown as the "most musical" book for me. And what allowed that was a more musical and better arranged brass book that allowed the percussion arranging to get really musical for everything to gel. I didn't really gather than Crown was supporting brass... more like just playing right along with the brass. I've always gotten the same thing with most of the Shaw/Rennick productions also. Some real tasty, interesting, musical stuff going on between the brass/drums/pit. For me Hannum's book wasn't really the problem... it was the performance. Even a brass guy can tell some of the clarity issues they had.. and outdoors especially that does effect upstairs somewhat... but the major hits were all pretty well aligned... the beginning of the show got pretty scary in quite a few of the FN videos I watched though and when I saw the show live outdoors... but finals week.. in the dome.. if there was dirt... I really couldn't hear it on any of the videos... and everything ensemble wise sounded pretty spectacular considering environmental demands throughout the show. That goes for everyone in the top 4. But yeah... I understand the performance issues... and they need to be taken care of. Which they have not... and honestly there were issues before Hannum and Beddis swapped... Hannum's books probably just help in highlighting some issues.. but I could be way off base... I'm just a brass guy like I said. Back to the musicality. Where Cadets lose me is in their total product. Yeah the rep was tough... but the brass book was lacking and felt too safe, especially considering the rep they were playing. The brass book was a little to watered down to the original and the music lost some of it's written in effect. Some interesting stuff weaving the themes throughout. That was effective, but in design and performance it was lacking for me. The percussion book was so well written and so much more interesting that I lost interest in the brass at some points in the show. Not d I'to mention the performance level of the percussion.. the brass was AWESOME but the percussion performance was just on another level. So... SCV and Crown.. for me I was interested in the entire musical product almost the whole time. Cadets, I was interested in the whole musical product most of the time, sometimes the brass lost me though. And I'm not even going to bring BD into the conversation. Let's just say the show works very well with itself. I get it...well done. I just wasn't in to it. And back to lurking mode.

Anything is better than what has been going on there since 2009. Things are starting to turn back in the right direction for this corps.

Anyone who did the FN subscription get their dvds yet?

Well... we'll have to wait and see how this year goes. Music should be good. Hopefully drill will be improved. Hopefully they look better marching the drill this year........................... Excited to see what they put out there in this big anniversary year.

FTR George did save the Crossmen. He also did NOTHING to help at the end except to not fold the corps. But forget keeping them in his backyard... had to get them as far away from the East as possible... since he has enough problems filling out his corps every year without them around. Most really thank him for what he did for the Crossmen. Those same people know what happened by the end. But they are also thankful again that he did not fold the corps.... he not the complete ### people make him out to be. But he has his issues.

I don't think they will be the next.. but if Crossmen ever FITFO, get a good staff in there, and figure out how to use the talent they have in their backyard, watch out! It's crazy to think the time this thread was made they were still under YEAs umbrella. Crazy. Seriously.. if they get a good consistent staff, and place well into finals.. watch out! Bluecoats would be my next guess. Bluecoats, Boston, or Blue Knights. Consistently in finals. Bluecoats having the obvious best chance having been in the top 3 and having strong caption across the board.. jsut need to have talent and design line up together and there is your championship. Boston and BK still have a bit to go.

They need to start playing with characteristic brass sounds and march a whole lot better. Visual design isn't nearly as bad as it was, it was much better this year. And in addition to marching better... they just need to cleaner drill. Guard was solid. thought they were better than where they were put in the end. And I'm not worried about drums. Brass arranging I guess has been okay. I like Drew's stuff for the most part.. some stuff is weird here or there... his books would shine a lot better if they were taught better. LASER TONE

Anyone remember when DCI.org allowed comments on articles? That was short lived. I remember when electronics was proposed again (this is after amplification was already legal). People wrote novels on there. I don't remember seeing one comment from a fan who was for it. And there were A LOT of comments. And then the comment sections on articles vanished... it was passed by a bunch of directors who still have their heads up in a dark and not so sanitary place, and we STILL hear CRAP being blasted at us from the front sideline by most corps. I've had to literally hold my ears for some corps the amount of crap they pump through those speakers. Cavies 2012? I thought my ears might stop bleeding... it was louder than being in an actual club. Are there some good uses? Sure... but not nearly enough, for stuff that has been used in DCI since 2009, and in the band activity since forever. Amplification doesn't bother me one bit as long as the pit is correctly balanced. It's all the electronic crap. It's just awful. I honestly feel like the sound of drum corps was completely changed between 2008 and 2009. The artificial sounds just do not compliment this activity well at all. It hasn't really added anything. Nothing is cutting edge. It takes away the creativity we had when all we had were acoustic instruments. I can be very back and forth on this stuff.. because I want to be accepting of new things and give them a chance. It's been 5 years of electronics... I'm 24... a liberal... and I want to unplug (not all the way... keep the mics and amps).

I wish I went to PPL... right up on the field... and the overhang... must have been AWESOME

They laid down grass in the Meadowlands this summer for soccer. That's why we had the third day in Allentown... I remember when they had grass at the old stadium for a while... it was just pointless.... kind of how it is pointless at the Linc in Philly too... the field doesn't exist by the 3rd game of the season. Soccer on turf is just isn't right though...

Did anyone else think that the sounds coming out of the park in Allentown this year were far more distracting than past years? And Crown probably should have got a penalty... you could hear much of their warm-up clear as day. And they weren't even in the park. And I'm sorry.. guards don't need to beat the crap out of a block in warm-up. Two drum sticks is all you need. You are all going to count with bad tempo loud and obnoxiously anyway. And in West Chester... many pre-show rituals were heard.. including a very loud SPLOOIE! Very distracting. It used to be judging started right after the DM salute correct? Or at least after the final announcement I do know that recent rule changes have allowed a lot more freedom when to actually start the judged portion of the show. And it seems George is the only director who feels the need to hold his hand in the their face until he's ready to go about his pacing. Need to chain him down or something. Or just create a rule to put all drum corps staff in a non-distracting area... outside the 30 or 20... only let a few in the stands.

Just how I would have liked things to come out in a somewhat reasonable matter. 1. Crown 2. SCV 3. Cadets 4. BD 5. Bluecoats 6. Phantom 7. Madison 8. Boston 9. Blue Knights 10. Spirit 11. Cavies 12. Troop 13. Crossmen 14. Blue Stars 12-14 I thought were all finals worthy shows. All had different weaknesses. Those three are basically ranked in how much I was entertained... Top 12 on entertainment alone. 1. SCV 2. Crown 3. Madison 4. Cadets 5. Troop 6. Spirit 7. Crossmen 8. Boston 9. Pacific Crest 10. Blue Knights 11. Oregon Crusaders 12. Cavaliers

GREAT THREAD Judging conversation I have been looking for, for quite some time. What I have gathered: Just ranking corps based on criteria just doesn't work. You also need some way to rate the corps. Thing is you want to be able to rank and rate at the same time since this is a competition and all that. Someone has to come out a winner. We have this box system that can box in judges. We can still rate effectively.. but ranking becomes a problem, especially with many corps performing at a similar level. Some people say who cares? Just rate them and if there are ties there are ties? Others say make the call! Other say some can't make the call because of numbers issues... which often is the problem. (I know there is some holes in what I have gathered so far... it's about time for bed) When I read the idea above to eliminate the numbers out of the equation... I was intrigued. And I'm trying to think critically about it. I'll sleep on it... Or could we just expand the boxes? Eliminate one? Give the judges more numbers to work with within a box so that they can make calls and worry a little less about managing their numbers? Or there is adding another decimal so the ranking can be even more closely done? But still... you will always run into numbers issues. Not everyone is perfect. I like eliminating the numbers... just ranking and rating without the worry of putting a number down. It would be a huge change. Not sure how exactly it would work. It might be easier than we think, and the solution to everything judging in the marching arts. Just eliminate the number. They are pretty much pointless anyway. It's all about the spreads and how you compare to the corps around you. I feel like we box ourselves in trying to assign numbers to something that isn't always so clear cut. Maybe we are all just a bunch of crazies!

Am I weird to say that I actually liked Crown's percussion book? More so than Cadets and BD? I know it wasn't clean. But to me it fit the music much better. As a brass guy... all i hear from most lines is notes notes notes. I know a lot of corps primarily write the horn book first with probably a pit outline in place along with that. It makes sense.. most the music arranged includes melody and harmony... so you would need to arrange that first before you add completely original music to arrangement of the source music. It then makes sense for the battery composer to write a score. I feel like Crown's writer really wanted to use the drums to enhance the music. Not to overpower it. Or distract from the horn book. I find Crown's complete musical arrangements much more in sync with each other than other corps. Even BD where they supposedly write everything basically at the same time? I guess that could work too... I just don't like how they choose to arrange? I try to stay away from talking about drum lines because I could easily make a fool out of myself. But clean vs dirty I can't tell as easily as musical and fitting to the music vs ramming notes or just drumming because we can. Maybe Crown was ramming notes? I mean the horns surely were... Drum parts are usually the only thing that is truly original music in the marching activity when the whole show itself isn't original music. I feel like some writers are trying too hard to make the drumline stand out at alltimes. Save that for the drum break. I'd rather everything be in balance. And maybe that is why Crown had decent analysis scores. That and especially in the dome... you can't hear what is clean or dirty unless you are right on top of it... because if you take a step away it gets LOST... so the box wouldn't be able to make any real call. I'm really just getting into the world of drumlines... it's a weird one that is for sure. Anyway.. I really loved Crown's complete product this year. I was amazed the three times I saw the show live and every time I watched a video on Fan Network or wherever. An awesome show, a deserved championship. Made a lot of history this year. Seriously awesome product. Congrats Crown, KEEP BRINGING IT!

Miced horn solos are also mostly terrible. Only a few times has it been used with taste. BD pumping the volume and re-verb on their trumpet soloists just sounds AWFUL. The thing I hate the most is it would sound AWESOME if they weren't playing into a mic. And most of the time these solos aren't happening over the corps playing full out. And when it is... most of the time it could probably be heard if projection, staging, and orchestrating were done correctly. Like what BD used to do... And honestly... the other effects besides re-verb I usually just find cheesy sounding. I know some people say they really dig it. I mostly can't stand it.

Maybe people hop onto that meme because they didn't enjoy the show? Ya know.. their personal opinion of the show? That quite a few people seem to agree with? Personally I like parts of this year, and last year. But the whole product just doesn't do it for me. And I have to see both shows quite a few times to really start to like. Unlike SCV where I wanted to give a standing O just from listening to a standstill performance during spring training. Or Crown where they blew me away with their showy brass and thought provoking theme (which I also know is partly what puts that shows off to some). It's just opinions. Not every show is going to be accessible to all.

Ah yes, thank you for reminding me. Good old Phantom... they have become QUITE WORSE with the goo. And I would agree they were number one on my list. Not to mention the sounds they choose just don't sound good? Is it the model of synth? Their modifications? Sounds very cheesy anytime they do anything with their synth.

I CANNOT STAND BASS SYNTH. AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Cadets, Madison, SCV at times, Blue Stars, BLUE DEVILS AHHHHHHHH. Just don't use it... YOU HAVE A TUBA SECTION! And many of you even have TIMPANI!! AMPLIFIED!!!! WHAT IS THE POINT OF MORE ####### BASS. IT SOUNDS TERRIBLE. AND ALL IT DOES IS COUNTERACT ALL THE WORK YOUR HORNS ARE DOING. And then... when you write the pit book to double almost the entire tuba or euph book... you #### off those people.. and then when you play a wrong note on your stupid synth, and not a single person on staff corrects you, I GET REALLY ###### OFF! Why did I even march? Just to run my ### off playing the ostinato that you are playing sitting on your ### pressing a few buttons? I'll stop before I get in trouble. But I really LOVE amplified pits. Love what can be done to balance between the keyboards and the field.(When done correctly) 2006 Cavies comes to mind with creative uses of pit amplification. The synths? Just leave 'em out. But there are more creative ways to use them. Crown has used them VERY well. Always adding to the music. Not too much on sound effects but still being tasteful when using them. The Goo is getting better though. Slowly.... BD... not so much. They even had goo when it was just amplification and no electronics.

Fan Network was quite terrible this season. And the finals feed was sub par, glad I didn't pay for it. Just do it right. That's all. And hey... you might just have to spend a little more money to make more money. Cause now you lost my subscription for next year.... And I'm tired of the "it's fine on our end" bs. I can stream anything from any other site no problem at anytime of day anytime of year with NO interruption. And how about we expand the archive already. I've been all "oh it's worth it!" But ya know what.. it's not anymore. It's bad enough it's takes forever just to load DCI.org let alone get to fan network. FITFO DCI... you can't even get your product out to the fans you already have, how will you ever gain more.

FWIW... I haven't been that entertained from Phantom since 2010... 2011 a little... but 2010... 2008 was really last year of them being PHANTOM!! for me. Now it's just a screen name... and I absolutely love their history of entertaining classical shows... no matter where they placed, they were always a fan favorite. They just aren't the same anymore. And I know it's always everyone hates BD... WAH WAH WAH... take off the blue tinted glasses and come watch the activity that everyone else is watching. Shower me in red minuses now... or what color would they be through the blue? Purple?

And you hear a murmur of BOOOs once again... seriously... I have no clue why this show is getting rewarded the way it is. Brass and percussion are good. THAT IS IT. The way I see it is SCV jsut has to be a little cleaner and they take 3rd.. FROM BLUE DEVILS with Crown and Cadets fighting for the win. I'm not even going to look at the recaps.. because I'm just gonna get more upset. Especially since I saw a good number of judges standing right next to each other on the sideline for a good portion of BDs show... whatever... At least Crown, Cadets, and SCV blow me away. Along with Madison, Spirit, Crossmen, Blue Stars, Troop, and all of them entertain me more than the other 4 in tonight's show. Sorry.... Just my opinions.. I know. But I KNOW I'm not alone. And that encore is awful... real entertaining.. really makes me wanna go to a TOC show.... NOT..