onthe50

If you have ever been on the field teaching or judging, you know that positioning on the field is a major consideration when it comes to clarity. Being "in position" is a major training item for field judges and the instructors will demand that the judge be in position for proper credit. Maybe the DCI instructors will never decide to relocate the percussion judge. Don't think they have not considered it especially with the success of the percussion 2 judge. There are not many differences between the top few lines so is having a field judge the only way to discern those differences? Maybe. You still need to consider the opportunity to judge the entire section for 100% of the time without seeing the little green man running around the field while we think the corps are providing the ultimate in total package production value. There are flaws in any survey including this one. Discussion of relocating the percussion judge have been in motion for a few years before this survey was even done. The debate over relocating the percussion judge has its merits even if people like you refuse to even consider them. We can agree to disagree and that's fine with me. Let's continue to be open to new and fresh ideas, some may work and some won't.

Ok, lets break this down since we have a great discussion going here........ The transit time is actually 21% of the show (from this very current survey from marching roundtable) FIELD PERC JUDGE PLACEMENT OVER 96 OBSERVATIONS OF WORLD CLASS DRUM CORPS - INCLUDING DCI CHAMPIONSHIPS MIN/SECS OF SHOW 1200-1300 TOTAL RESPONSES Transit 20.51% Pit 18.99% Snares 14.57% Tenors 11.74% Basses 8.33% Battery Ensemble 17.75% Cymbals, if any 1.16% Show complete or not started 6.96% As far as the read is concerned, MOST of the time a judge spends evaluating a drumline is spend in transit (21%). The actual pit sampling is 19% of the show and we can all agree they deserve better than 19%. The battery receives 54% of the evaluation. That's only half of the show? We can agree that we need to consider segments of the show where battery does not play....etc but the judge still needs to be in transit to evaluate the pit. The track is not an option. The judge needs to be in or near the press box. I agree with you about the current quality being due to the scrutiny they are under BUT, are we really getting great reads of these great sections with the current results of this survey? No. I don't think one of these drumlines would do less because there is not a judge on the field. They may even become more creative. Also, I can go to an August show and see the creativity we see in June because it's all still there and not deleted for ticks sake. Adding a judge just for the pit or battery is a huge step in the wrong direction. It needs to be a unified evaluation with all segments being evaluated with consistency from corps to corps. Having the judge in the stands where he/she can evaluate 100% of the percussion section for 100% of the time seems like a solution. The question is do we want to sacrifice a judge being up close to the individuals for those micro differences or do we want a 100% evaluation from upstairs where the designers design the show to be heard. I think they will get a great read from upstairs without the individual detail the judge can get now...........for 100% of the show. The debate continues.

The corps have better sound systems than the stadiums in NJ.

So the answer is to continue spending 40% of the judges time going from the front of the field to the back (missing the pit/battery contribution while in transit) and upon running back to the battery, most of that time is "out of position" to accurately assess the skills of the performers all while providing a distraction to the audience to justify the difference between drumline A and drumline B's proficiency of vocabulary that you as a member of the audience cannot hear anyway? Add to that, the work the staff spends at rehearsal all day making the show work to the top of the stadium. makes sense to me........????? garfield - I was not comparing DCA to DCI. Just the fact that DCA seems to have "seen the light" on this topic. Thanks for the reply.

I could not agree more. I end up watching the judge some of the time because my eye is drawn to him running in and out of the drill. DCA figured it out........

I think the MM's are tough enough to deal with the criticism. I don't think they should have to though. To be honest, I don't think sports radio should be as critical as they are with NCAA athletes. It's a GAME....... Sports radio is for a bunch of wannabee armchair players who want justice for their team loosing OR they want to gloat because they feel they did something to make their team win. It's becoming the same here on DCP. "Corps x has a crappy hornline", " this show is boring"..... I just feel that there is too much positive in this activity to dwell on the negatives. It's not worth it.

So true........

Everybody is a "Judge." What happened to going to shows to enjoy the performances? That's why they practice so hard...........

This clears things up......

Now that's funny!

Let's face it, with very few (1) active drum corps in New York state, the only people that travel to see championships are the die hard old fans. The corps with the younger members like Fusion, Bush, Cadets2, Windsor Regiment and the Buccaneers will bring in fans because the parents will come. Maybe special pricing for local band programs to come see the show would help? With the corps now using the latest technology, maybe the younger potential members from these band programs will see DCA as an option for them to join a corps. With the core group of Open Class corps getting better, the show is becoming a "must see" show. DCA is doing a much better job of marketing these days but the value is in the quality of the corps performances. BTW, nobody is interested in a July championship.

I like how you qualified the reason for the Bucs crowd response at the end of the show. I was in the stands and could not hear anything but applause while the Bucs played the last 15 seconds of their show (and I was not near the crazy pirates ) That is a testament of their efforts on Sunday night. I have been to a lot of shows over the years and it has been a long time since I saw that level of communication come from a DCA corps. The Bucs were on fire from the time they stepped on the field to the end of the program. I know a lot of us jumped on the Cabs bandwagon at the end of the year and they were great on Sunday too. But, I was floored by the way Reading performed. The look on the faces around me told the story. Most people were just amazed. The guy next to me who was wearing Fusion gear looked at me and said, "That's trouble for everyone." Congrats to all the corps for their level of quality and entertainment this year! So I guess this is the end of the, "every corps goes up 2.x every week and nothing changes from show to show" that is discussed on this board. Maybe next year we can discuss the qualities we enjoy from week to week rather than the constant micro analysis of ticks (which left our activity in the 80's). Every weekend corps has ticks so maybe we can evolve like the corps have...... Great job to ALL the performers!

Great job Jeff! I agree that the Bucs had it on Saturday night. They could be very tough to beat this weekend if they keep the momentum moving like they are. The past couple weeks have shown why they are so successful. Gives new meaning to "breaking on through." We'll see the best Hawthorne product we have seen in a while this weekend along with Fusion's best effort to date. Curious to see the C-2 improvement this week and what MBI has. Is Bush for real? Can't wait.

Why have judges at each show if nothing is supposed to change? Maybe we should use the DCP, "add 2.3 points per week to every score" (or whatever stupid formula you want to use) with no consideration for varying rates of improvement. Let's face it, there are some corps who have staffs who know what to do and the end of the season and others who don't. We can only hope that every corps on Saturday has a clean slate going in with no expectations either positive or negative. I have experienced both of these scenarios in my drum corps career. The last minute surge is much more fun than trying to limp to the finish with another corps breathing down your neck. Let's see who handles it.

Right on Jeff! There are certain aspects of this activity we have some to enjoy with precision and quality of performance being on the list behind the overall entertainment value of a program. I'm not so sure that the lack of a sheet is the culprit because the staffs would not disregard basic marching technique because there is no specific sheet. Professionalism of drum corps is and always will be a major consideration is quality of performance and scoring. The effectiveness of the corps you are referring to was very obvious at this show. Having witnessed earlier viewings of these corps, I understood the scoring at that point in the season but not Saturday. The rapid late season improvement by Reading is bringing their program to life and that is trouble for the field of competitors. I though their level of communication Saturday was like nothing I have seen from them this season. After seeing the recap, I was baffled. Its too bad for the members of the Bucs that they were not rewarded for the efforts on Saturday night. It's not supposed to work that way. As a drummer, I was more baffled by the drum numbers. I did not see the Cabs even close the Bucs. Or C-2 for that matter. I watched C-2 and Cabs warm-up. What's going on? Lastly, it was nice to see the Bucs play a post contest run for Jimmy Gruber. Looking forward to your assessment of the corps Jeff. I think we might have a similar take on the show.

I was in the stands in Scranton. Didn't experience your take on the show. I can understand the fear as Reading continues to get better. It was a great show by several corps. Love the Cabs intro! Fusion's guard!

Ticks went out in the 80's

Electronics are here to stay. The corps have done a wonderful job implementing the technology making drum corps sound better than ever. Depth of the pit is astounding!

I saw the Bucs in Downingtown and could not believe the improvement from Secaucus. The show just keeps growing on me. I can only imagine where they are now with the program. Not sure if Fusion can compete with the bigger corps but they are decent. Cabs are good this year but is it enough? Back to back this weekend so we'll find out.

You guys should go to the Downingtown show this weekend. We could get those big boxing gloves and settle this at intermission. Let's get back to eJudging. jk

bsw1986, None of us here know what we're talking about. If we did we would be teaching or judging.

Kamarag, we finally agree!

I guess we can agree to disagree. According to the DCA rulebook: The judge is to recognize and reward the quality of content with respect to brass and percussion, and the achievement of excellence by the ensemble. Emphasis is to be placed on the responsibilities creating variety, risk, intrigue. Achievement is defined as the simultaneous consideration of what is being done and how well it is done. The value of the composition development and skillfulness of the ensemble excellence are credited as they contribute to a diverse, active, inspiring, thought provoking, and unique production that demonstrates competence in training and expertise. Ticks went out in the 80's. If you choose to sit in the stands with your tick clickers and think that this is how ME is evaluated then I hope this post helps. When considering the definition of ME, I just think its crazy to consider the Bucs closer to Bush than C2 and according to the spreads "not comparable" to Fusion in Compositional Development in this caption. Really? I realize the performance flaws will affect the Clarity & Excellence sub-caption but you need to consider the entire sheet not just a bullet or two in one sub-caption. Not trying to be confrontational, I just don't think some people on this board are properly informed. BTW, it was great to see CV this early.

Don't count on the ME results to stand. Not a great performance by that judge.

Fusion