crunch2402

That initial hit coming out of the pit runs gives me chills every single time i hear it...

During spring training in Whitewater, WI in '03, Ben Potts told us to "Go run around that pine tree out there" when the tree he was referring to was actually a very young maple tree, clearly not pine... Needless to say, he heard about that one the rest of the summer... also have to add... it's not a quote, but anytime staff was indecisive about where they wanted us to start and so the whole group of us would be wandering from one side of the other making various farm animal sounds... i will never forget the sounds of very poorly-imitated bleating sheep and moo-ing cows... priceless...

Just so you know, 1999 was the Jesus Christ Superstar Show... 2000 was the Cossack Brotherhood show, the Russian-themed show... And while certainly not along the same vein as other Madison shows, I would say that falls under one of Madison's most underrated shows... Very good stuff...

Amen brother. Amen.

I would imagine that rather than waiting to find out if they would be part of the new director's plans, and since they have both been with the organization for a fair amount of time now, maybe they felt it was the best time to move on, and help make the new director (whomever that may be) free to make the creative team choices he feels is best... Does that mean that I think this is a good move for the organization? Not necessarily... Time will tell... As Scouts, they cannot be replaced... But can the design team be replaced? Yes. To Scott, Mark, and every other member of the Scouts organization, be it administrative, creative, or support: I wish the best of luck to you in whatever you do from here on out... Thank you for your service to the corps and for keeping that tradition alive... MYNWA

I'm going to reply to a few things, and so won't quote everything... First of all, the uniforms from pre-2003 were ratty... i didn't march pre-2003, but we were told (and some vets confirmed) that the uniforms were in the condition of "potato sacks..." now does that constitute a re-design? not necessarily, but with a new director and new design team, if you're going to spend the money, and the design team feels a need for a re-design, why not do it at that time? I didn't feel like any less of a Scout in that uniform. Whether or not this is referring to the average over the last four years, or the 2003 season in particular, I don't know... But the average age in 2003 was somewhere between 17-18... I was told by staff that I marched with that this year's average age and retention was higher than it had been the last few years... I also would say that the talent level was another notch up following a 6th place finish in '05... It can't be easy to pump out a fantastic visual show when a brand new designer comes in (especially one like Rosander)... And why did the previous designer (Webber, and even back to Thompson) leave the corps? That's for another discussion...All that being said, as an alum, all of the changes are fairly troubling... The sound of the Scouts for the last 18 years certainly seems in jeopardy... But as an alumni, I will not stop supporting the corps or rooting for the corps... It is my understanding that current members of the corps do not know what's going on anymore than we do... But I can assure you that they read these forums, and I feel strongly that these current members desparately need the support from those of us that are alumni/long-time supporters/those who feel they will continue to support the Madison Scouts... To me, "May You Never Walk Alone" means that no member will go through anything without the support of their brothers, be it past, present, or future, positive or negative, major or minor... And I choose to be there for them if they need it... my $.02

Going a little more back to the original topic, I think that design teams are always trying to do both... Because of the cost factor of running a corps, obviously placing higher at competitions is important... Personally, I think the big thing with entertaining the crowd is how much the crowd feels it has to fit into the "status quo..." Another thread talks about how crowd reactions seem to be decreasing... People trying to be more attentive to the show as a whole rather than giving it up for every intricate part that shines through as incredible... If a newer fan is attending a show, and they get yelled at once for standing up in the middle of a show, do you think they're going to do it again? Probably not... Marching 2003, it was always difficult to get a read on what exactly the crowd thought about the show... And it changes so much from show to show... I'll be honest... While I can sit and be an "armchair designer" and think about all the music that would make a ridiculously sweet show, I can't say that I envy the position of any designer for any corps... The tradition they're "supposed" to keep intact, the alumni they feel they must please, the crowd they feel they must win over, and the judges they feel they must prove to that they have the best show... I'd rather go to the show and watch... Or march... *sigh

you know, i only marched madison on year... and i didn't march under stewart... but i would have to say that you hit everything right on the head... thank you!!

While the sound has changed, yes, I think that a lot can be attributed to the fact that the audience coming out to shows is changing... From an internal perspective, I believe that first and foremost for all Scouts for all time will be to entertain the crowd... As the audience changes and music in general continues to change, the music needed in order to really reach the audience is going to have to change as well... Are audience reactions in the last few years the same as they were in drum corps' "glory days?" I would say definitely not... The changing of the activity of those glory days to its almost elitist status now, less than 200 corps, has brought about, I believe, a huge change in the audience... So I think that while tradition is, at its root a constant, it does change, and HAS to change (hopefully slowly and subtely) in order to retain the familiarity across ALL generations, not just that of its origin... The name alone, "The Madison Scouts" carries the tradition with it, and I can guarantee you, the Scouts out on the field marching the show, whether it be a "Drum Corps Fan's Dream: Pt. 3" or another show using music Scouts have never played before, feel as much a part of all Scouts who have been before them and will come after them as any other Scout who has ever marched...

Very well said. Of course, I marched '03, Salas' first year with the corps, and that was it... So of course I heard stories of Scott, but never even met the man... However, I will always support the corps, no matter what direction they go (until they start marching woodwinds, that is :P )... also, wasn't Stewart involved in a consultation-type role with Pioneer since he left Madison?

I know that in 2003 with Madison, nothing was ever really said about Finals being any different... no coaching was given at all... i know that on finals night, i remember walking through the tunnel beforehand and then i don't remember anything until after we'd gotten off the field... my emotions didn't seem to really let go until the post-show talk by staff... the tears were flowing, and the hugs were passed around... it can't be fully explained until it has been experienced... and even then, words mean nothing...

I'm not going to quote that, because it's really quite long... However... I haven't been around the drum corps world for very long... I went to my first show in 2002, was blown away, and marched Madison in 2003, the first post-Stewart year... It's a rather sad commentary on the state of DCI when, as a member of the Madison Scouts, while we were proud, were in the minority when it comes to philosophy and method of operation... As someone who has kept up pretty well with drum corps since mid-2002, I was mostly angry and completely baffled upon seeing the video of the Cadets' show last year (unfortunately, I was unable to attend any shows last summer)... I didn't even understand the show, much less have any respect for it... And we're displaying that on ESPN2 to showcase the best brass and drum players and marchers in the world... Innovation is a great thing... Without innovation, we'd still have the pit marching on the field, and symmetrical drill would have been maxed out (not that either one of those things is inherently bad)... But there comes a point where innovation begins to reach too far, and that point has come and (unfortunately) gone... Hopkins' methodology of trying to get as many people involved as possible, while feasible in many arenas, is just not so in drum corps, at least not if drum corps is to retain its isolation from just a summer high school band... As the quality of drum corps goes up (albeit because potential members have less places to audition and less spots to fill), it's plainly obvious that there's an abundance of talent across the United States to fill more programs, but because of financial reasons, there's not that flexibility anymore... Don't get me wrong, there are corps out there that have made the transition to amplification very well without letting it get out of hand (Scouts immediately come to mind, though I know there's others)... I can't even fathom how much time and money amplification has added on to the activity, now with even a sound guy needed to keep everything balanced during the show... How is that drum corps? Even if a marching member placed their horn down on the ground and marched to the soundboard to make an adjustment, it's still ridiculous... At what point was it decided that the balance and sound of a live drum corps show should be determined by a staff member sitting on the sidelines in front of a soundboard listening to a show through headphones? At what point was it decided that the show should NOT be determined by the kids that bleed, sweat, and push their bodies beyond the conceivable limits to get 20,000 people to stand up in August? All that to say, you struck some chords with me... I anticipate there will be some very interesting opinions that will be flushed out as a result of this post... thank you

innocent oversight... i apologize

I can't help but think that this thread simply cannot be settled on dcp... when asking for an outsider's opinion of what the elite corps are, how many of us on here are truly considered "outsiders"? if i were to define the "elite" corps i would start with crowd response... being a Scout, the perception of my show comes from the crowd, not the judges... sure, a title is fantastic, and i'm sure there's nothing better than being considered the best div 1 corps in the land... but if i had to choose between having a ring from a show that the fans didn't really get into or having a finalist show that the crowd stood the entire time for, i would choose the latter... for an outsider, i would have to think that the "elite" would be defined by surface drum corps history, most notably those six corps that have won dci (bd, cavies, cadets, pr, scv, madison, with star going down in elite lore)... that was the whole point of the tour of champions, for dci to showcase their "elite" corps... and i would say that no matter current standings (scv last year, scouts since 99, etc.) the buzz for any of these six corps upon entering the stadium can't quite be touched... the easiest way to evalute this? go see shows at the very beginning of the year before anyone knows what the show is about/like... when a corps' name precedes its program, there's your "elite"...

just a question, what were you comparing their posture to? i marched in 2003, and when i saw them at Battle Creek and in rehearsal that day, I was extremely impressed with their posture, although it was quite different from what was expected of us in 2003... with new vis staff comes new vis expectations, from repertoire to direction changes to posture... and i would agree that at Battle Creek they were still quite dirty... i can't even imagine how much of a struggle that opener is to get clean... love the Rosander style, but it may take the rest of this year before the brass staff (which has remained fairly intact since before i marched), percussion staff, and vis. staff get everything clicking... can't be easy on members who have been there since '03 or '04, considering they've had new vis. staff each year...

Scouts might be an interesting option, as well. Always have a challenging brass book, and some fantastic mello lines have gone through there (i might be just slightly biased :P ) The visual book promises to be quite challenging under Rosander. Again, it can't be stressed enough to choose a corps that you will fit well with. Talk to anyone you might know that has marched some of these big D1 corps to find out what tour life is like, as it will vary greatly from corps to corps. Finally, visit as many camps and tryouts as you can, as you will get a first-hand taste of the respective corps in these situations. Good luck in your search and in 2007. I envy you youngin's :)

I think you make very valid points, and agree with you... I would love to see some re-writes especially in the vis program, but I'm just not sure it will happen... I guess if they peak soon enough, they may have no choice...

and they weren't even as good at the show as at their run-through that afternoon

I have not seen Cavie's show, but in Battle Creek, it was very obvious that BD was on another plateau than even 'Coats and PR, even though those two were on another level than the rest of the corps... The only danger I think BD faces is peaking too early...

Great point on the colors of Crown's uniforms (i know, it's pretty elementary)... but i think that the purple plumes has done WONDERS for their on-field visual presence...

Give me a powerful hornline (Scouts, BD, PR, SCV come to mind) and I would LOVE to hear Elsa's Procession to the Cathedral as a closer...

I was also at their Battle Creek rehearsal, and while they might not be at peak yet, they're still smoking... Was a little disapppointed with the on-field performance at the show, however... Now the encore... that was fairly impressive...

Madison '01, 95

I'd be up for hearing anything by Muse on a drum corps field

Madison '01 Phantom 96