DCI Title lost over hash marks?

[Guard Diva]

As far as the question about how does Quarters have anything to do with Finals, the answer is - name how many times the corps this year had three performances in a row...and these were major performances, not local shows. If they don't manage their time and energy carefully, the tank can be empty on Saturday. I am claiming the Cadets' tank was on empty. I was not in Pasadena, so if you were, tell me why the Cadets' score dropped. I've offered my thoughts.

every other corps that was there made and made finals also had shows three rows ina night....yet if the Cadets didn't manage their time and energy carefully, that has NOTHING to do with the hash marks.

As for the sores, they were .05 behind BD on Friday night, when they were "giving it their all".....let's jsut say for sake of argument, they somehow found even MORE to give on Saturday....say .7 more (the amount BD improved on Saturday)...they STILL wouldn't have beat the Devils. Sorry but your whole theory that the hash mark thing cost them the finals is just that...your theory, and nothing more. Believe what you want, but the rest of the world knows better.

Edited August 12, 2007 by Guard Diva

[dbc03]

Exactly! How did I know when I signed onto DCP today the borg would be whining like little girls about not winning last night!

The better corps won - get over it - look forward to next season!

Don't let the facts get in the way, but the OP is not a "Cadets borg" and none of the people that are always referred to as "Cadets borg" have said anything at all about Quarterfinals being the reason they lost.

Any reason to ##### and moan about Cadets fans though.

[euponitone]

Here's an apt analogy. I watch a lot of basketball (but only college). How often do you see a game lost on a bad call at the end. Its a fact, and it happens. Now, did that thing cost the team the game, yea, BUT, think about it - of that team had played correctly the whole game, they wouldnt be in that case. If they had made less mental errors, or been more prepared, they wouldn't have been in the position for that one thing to decide the game.

Look, all im saying is that one thing cant be the determining factor in such an event. Did the quarters debable affect the kids?, yeah, sure, but i know for a fact they were still gearing to go for finals. Saying that this one thing is why they didnt win is about as foolish as saying the cavaliers didnt win because of their ge vis score being to low. Its narrowminded, and imo, a little foolish

[coloradocorp]

Nothing is different about this year versus previous years. The subjective format of judging which is now engrained into the DCI culture tends to produce very few surprises. It was the BD night. If anyone in the Cadets organization wants to lay it on 'the hash marks' controversy - well give us all a break. Every corp laid it all out on the turf last night. I can recall BD winning everything until finals night and the judging going with Cavies - now that was odd.

Will be interesting to see how GH ' narrates' this outcome in his Blog. Let's see - perhaps - the bad,mean spirited judges punished his corp for whatever - sad commentary indeed.

These kids did their best . Sad that there was the 'booing' which was deplorable during competition week and has no place in this or any other competitive actiivity. HOwever, on the flip side - it shows the disdain many have for both the narration thing as well as GH. Perhaps the only DCHOF member who might have an asterisk next to their name.

Edited August 12, 2007 by coloradocorp

[VKMello84]

I dont know but I'm not buying this theory and here's why. If the Cadets laid it all out on Friday night the fact remains that they still didnt pass BD so, what did Thursday night have to do with costing them a chance at the title?

Personally I think the Cadets show was championship quality and one I will love for years but the judges thought differently. I don't see the hash mark issue affecting anything other than Thursday nights scores.

Judges are human and not free of bias. The two corps were so close that almost anything can make the difference. It isn't solely about whether the Cadets should have stepped off on time or not. I have never seen a director draw so much attention to himself. He could have done his business in his normal venue of the sideline, but he chose to make his phone call from the dead center of the field. Not only did this take focus away from the corps, it made it clear to many people in the stadium exactly what the sequence of events going on was. He also reacted and gestured to the crowd in response to there negative reaction. Again, he is deciding to make himself the center of attention. To cap of the exit off he marched himself front sideline to back sideline of an empty field. Be it the right call, or the wrong call, to pull the corps off the field, the director made spectacle of himself and that was a completely separate choice.

Next, in what was probably a timing coincidence the instant Cadets’ score was announced, the director is seen running onto the field and having a confrontation with an official. From a distance it certainly appeared that the director was yelling at this official as well. Once the director received his judging package or heard the score, he was not placed on any sort of clock, I am fairly certain. The decision to remove the penalty was not going to be made at an instant and the time to file a protest was not going to elapse in short order. Once again the director had chose to operate outside of his traditional venue and expose the underside of contest management to the remaining fans.

DCI upon determining that the penalty was not just issued a statement including the quote “At no time was (the director) anything but respectful of the contest director and the situation.” While your average fan in the stands may not understand all of the intricacies of DCI contests, most have seen enough professional sporting events to know what a good dressing down of an official looks like. So, to many in the stands, that statement lacks credibility and also brings into question the integrity of DCI’s decision making through the entire affair. But as a judge one is seeing their managing entity publicly siding with one of its own directors over one of the top guys in one’s own profession. DCI could have remained mute about this. Only a very tiny percentage of the people who read that statement were actual witness to the apparent confrontation of the director and the official.

So the judge has to compare these two performances which precedent has establish are extremely close on the scale provided. Not only that, but the two presentations have almost nothing in common beyond the types of equipment being used. Now we add to that the noise of all of this additional drama rattling around inside their domes. Does it effect the scoring? Nobody really knows.

History tells me that Blue Devils are a perennial front runner in drum corps. They seem to be able to master their program to a certain level before everyone else and then try to boat race the field. Cadets are a corps which sometimes take the entire season to get to a finished product. I have not seen this unit in early season, but I understand that the product is often very unrefined early on. This is a unit with a history of late surges. When I see a Blue Devil streak of 19 straight victories broken on what is arguably the biggest home show they have ever had by the Cadets, I don’t consider that a good sign for BD. My expectation at that point is that Cadets are going to be the champion.

Judgements though about corps quality are something I really never try to make until I have actually seen the unit perform live. I only saw the Cadets perform in Pasadena.

After Friday, I concluded that they were really flat on Thursday. Their losing some focus as a result of the delay and distraction of Thursday’s events was something that I anticipated as a possibility and I am inclined to believe that was the case.

I am not a fan of the narration. I feel like I have come to understand what they were trying to accomplish with it, but I do not think that they succeeded entirely. I have become intrigued with it though, and actually think that this sort of approach is probably worth another look in the future. There were moments in their show which I felt we almost transcendent, approaching the type of experience they provided in 2000. Not quite there, but very close.

Blue Devils just looked better to me though. It is very hard to for me to quantify these things. I will say that they ever cleaner visually. The other thing is hard to explain. They had a really incredible presence on the field. This is the sort of thing I think one has to see live to understand. There was just this dynamic and dramatic energy generated by their design and presentation that elevated them above all of the other units in these three nights to my eye . . . and ear.

There isn’t really much doubt in my mind that Blue Devils beat them, but my opinions have not always coincided with those of the judging panel. So, if there ever was a year where the actions of the director cost a corps a championship, I would have to say that this the closest thing we have ever seen to that. I have to believe that it is the closest thing we ever will see to that.

We can never know what would have happened or what could have happened. In baseball a single error can sometimes result in the surrender of multiple runs. Life is like that too, where a single action can have all sorts of unforeseen events.

Since one of the messages of the Cadets this year was “I believe in choice” I think this puts something of a poetic spin on the whole thing.

Congratulations to the Cadets on a fantastic show and to the Blue Devils on a well earned championship.

Edited August 13, 2007 by VKMello84

[mellos]

Oh for heaven's sake. The Cadets lost because the Blue Devils gave a better performance of a GREAT SHOW.

I have to disagree. Cadets came out last night and gave the performance of their life! They were electric from the moment they walked through the tunnel. Blue Devils show lacked energy, fire, and spark.

After watching both shows two nights in a row, The Cadets truly had the better program. Blue Devils program was dated, and not that entertaining. What the members DID on the field, was wonderful and I applaud them for a great performance, but the show was lackluster.

And the hashes had nothing to do with Cadets losing the show.

[BigSnareline]

This is simply amazing! Blue Devils beat the Cadets three nights in a row. Not by much - but they did beat them. Quit whining, aleady.

[Tekneek]

IThe Cadets truly had the better program.

They appear to have been deficient in some way since three nights in a row they did not beat BD. Unless there was a vast conspiracy to make sure they did not win?

Edited August 12, 2007 by Tekneek

[Elmo Blatch]

Final scores do not a great show make....

Correct.

Finals + Semis + Quarters (especially) make the best show.

Elmo Blatch

[LAMystreaux]

Correct.

Finals + Semis + Quarters (especially) make the best show.

Elmo Blatch

. . .in the opinion of DCI and the judges.