What place would Bucs take at DCI Championships?

[JimF-LowBari]

I think although this relatively recent incarnation of the Buccaneers is an absolutely wonderful corps, getting away from their thematic roots so to speak has made it easy for some to question their creativity. If I hadn't been going to Drum Corps Shows for 30 years I would have had no idea this was their 50th Anniversary Season.

But I'd say Buccs went back to their roots/theme/identity of being ahead of other corps in the show that they present. I started 1974 and when the corps would get a low score, some Buccs fans I knew would complain that the corps was ahead of everyone else and the judges "don't get what they are doing". Listened to 1974 Buccs recently and "Dies Iries"(sp!!) was unlike anything I heard that year.

Not meant as a slam to other corps today but big difference between 2007 and 2003 when I started watching DC again.

[MikeD]

Poster cire noted that DCI corps don't have performers who've been at it for 10+ years.

In response, MikeD said:

Well, actually, Mike, you did:

No I didn't. Here is the quote I asked that question about....

You will also hardly see members in DCI who have been playing in corps for 10+ years.

As Marty has pointed out, time and again, he sees a mature quality to a lot of DCA players' abilities that isn't quite so inherent in DCI players. This maturity is time- and experience-based. (Time and experience that DCI players can't get.) This maturity enables DCA corps to pull off some things that a DCI corps might not be able to emulate.

That is his opinion, and he is welcome to hold it. I happen to disagree that the difference is all that significant.

As I stated a while back, Bucs would be on par with DCI Semi-Finalist corps, due in large part to their members' experience counteracting the DCI corps' youth/fitness advantage. DCI corps try to overwhelm the audience with execution of near-impossible routines. That approach plays up their advantages in youth and rehearsal time. DCA corps try to overwhelm the audience with emotion and story-telling. That approach plays up their advantages in maturity and experience. Marty also (I believe) brought up the mini-corps example of T-Birds and Sky. I mentioned earlier the approach that Star United takes. I would note the contrast there mirrors the contrast of DCA vs DCI.

You're right in the sense that each has their own take, and no one is right or wrong, in the moral sense. But, you've been trying to kick the props out from under the maturity argument in virtually every contribution you've made to this thread.

I am giving my own POV, that's all. I disagree with this supposed 'advantage' of experience.

DCA corps do great things in the time they have available. I've been a fan of many DCA corrps going back to the 60's; most recently the Buccs and Bush have been my favorites. Why isn't it enough that they do a great job at presenting the shows they do without somehow trying to tear down the DCI members and what they do?

So, I ask this question: Why is the man who repeatedly says no one should knock down one group to raise up another been trying so hard to run down the idea that DCA's mature performers can allow them to be on par with DCI?

I'm niot running them down. I don't think that this supposed advantage exists on any corps-wide scale, that's all. There are great players in DCA. Given the time they have they do wonders.

[Dale Bari]

Why isn't it enough that they do a great job at presenting the shows they do without somehow trying to tear down the DCI members and what they do?

Supply the quote where somebody "tear down the DCI members"! I'd like to see it.

(BTW, your quote of my post is outdated. I originally posted at 11:11AM. I edited my post at 11:24AM (after checking cire's post to make sure I accurately quoted him/her). Your post comes in at 12:02PM. In any case, a casual observer would probably conclude that my original statement "who've been at it" is equivalent to "who've been in corps". On top of that, my correction pulls the rug out from under your reply, which does nothing to answer what relevance DCI players being students for 10 years has to do with Marty's original statement, and besides, I've shown the claim of 10 years' experience to be not very true.)

It was Marty's opinion that DCI shows were (going on memory here) "flat, but well-executed programs". And that statement, to you, is somehow equivalent to "tear[ing] down the DCI members". Nobody is tearing down the DCI members, except in your fevered imagination. All Marty claimed (if I may summarize) was that the years of experience (gained only from doing senior corps) could help DCA corps be competitive with DCI corps from an audience perspective (and not necessarily in scoring).

You claim that everything is "IMO" or "my POV", but what concrete examples can you state unequivocally that support your POV? Let's start with my first challenge to you, and it should be easy:

Where does someone in this thread "tear down the DCI members"?

I don't think that this supposed advantage exists on any corps-wide scale, that's all. There are great players in DCA. Given the time they have they do wonders.

So, if that advantage doesn't exist, how do they pull off those "wonders", hmmmm? What else could we DCA members have that gives us an advantage over those DCI kids? Or are the "real" wonders only performed by DCI corps, and you're just humoring us by calling our feats "wonders". Or is it only the great players who pull them off, and the rest of us don't matter? But if the rest do matter, then how is it not true on a "corps-wide scale"?

OK, Mike, answer those questions, if you dare.

[GuyW]

I've come to the conclusion that reading most of MikeD's posts is like subjecting myself to Catherine Burr's posts...just my opinion, of course....

Edited September 7, 2007 by GuyW

[Dale Bari]

Wow.....Mythology and Foghorn Leghorn in the same post.

That's NORSE mythology to you! <aside>"That boy's about a sharp as a bowling ball."

For my next trick, I will perform Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" in the style of Bryan Adams. (And if you get THAT reference, I will eat my hat.)

[LegalEagle50]

Family Guy?

[Dale Bari]

Family Guy?

I don't usually watch "Family Guy", but it would be just like them to do that. However, I'm afraid that's not the answer I was looking for. Thanks for playing, though.

The guy from Atlanta has a teensy shot at guessing correctly. But, I'm very confident in my bet, which is why I offered a stiff consequence.

[Fred Windish]

Dale, Mike, Marty, et al . . .

Much appreciation for fueling this discussion. This is the most interesting DCP topic I've followed in quite some time!

As I stated before, an accurate, definitive answer to "How would the Bucs do . . . " is impossible to identify, and for me, that's the beauty of this activity!

I've been to plenty of DCI shows and felt "How can they be this perfect?" I've also been to plenty of DCA shows and thought "Gee, this was a good night out, money well spent!"

For me ( a blue short-wearing Buccaneer), what the Bucs put on the field this year was stunning. I couldn't be more pleased with what my heritage has to offer today. Was it Santa Clara in blue? I don't know. I do know it was drum corps on a VERY high level. That's enough for me! I also believe our first-on, finalist corps, Rochester Crusaders, were excellent! Probably the strongest corps to occupy that slot in many, many years. What a championship it was!

This I believe (sorry) . . . I paid good money for my tickets, probably dropped $1000 into the Rochester community, and I have NO regrets what-so-ever! I'll be back next year, for sure. That's DCA!

Could the 2007 Buccaneers corps I saw Sunday crack DCI's top twelve? Can Appalachian State beat Michigan?

[Fran Haring]

DCI changed the format of the broadcast a few years ago. Seems the point of the new format is to try to expose the activity to more people through some large clips, commentary, background, and human interest stories, rather than to appeal to drum corps die-hards who want to see a slate of 11-minute performances. We can, and usually do, buy tickets and DVDs. When I viewed the broadcast from the perspective I think they were aiming for, I liked it. A lot.

I agree. I think DCI markets itself quite well.

A format of all 12 finalist performances would appeal to the existing drum corps audience, but I'm not sure it would go over well at all with a nationwide audience on a major cable sports channel. I like the "story behind the story" approach.

And I honestly don't care where the Bucs, or any other all-age corps, would finish at a DCI championship....it's pure speculation. I'm just really glad they're part of DCA!

Comparing weekend-only all-age corps and touring junior corps is an apples-and-oranges comparison, IMO. Those segments of the overall activity.... and also alumni corps......all bring something different to the table. That's a good thing, again IMO.

Fran

[Martybucs]

I also believe our first-on, finalist corps, Rochester Crusaders, were excellent! Probably the strongest corps to occupy that slot in many, many years. What a championship it was!

I think the discussion over Bucs making DCI finals was over a long time ago. "That myth was busted"

I think Crusader's show is an excellent example of the passion and interpretation of the music fueled by experience.

Crusader's ending, so powerful. "Great Gate at Kiev" We've all heard it probably hundreds of times, but that performance transcended the title of the song by the will of the performers. What I heard was the "Great Gate at Rochester" (or Gates if you will). They owned the song and it was a perfect ending.

Was it perfect? no. Was it technically close to a DCI performance? no. Was it DCA? Oh yeah.

For me, it was more enjoyable than anything I saw on TV with DCI. (I'm sure it was much better in person)

I'll bet a lot of people feel that way. How did they do it? How did they entertain so many people, if they didn't call on their experience and skills as long time players to entertain a large crowd of very experienced fans? And I'm talking all the corps, although I didn't see all of them this year and I couldn't make the championship.

Mike, experience across DCA is abundant and is significant. It does make a difference or else why aren't the orchestras, pro bands and pits and recording studios filled with inexperienced musicians? I'm sure they'd work cheaper.

Nobody is tearing down DCI we're only defending the credibility of what we do because when people say there is no way a DCA corps could compete with a DCI corps, what it sounds like to us is, "we're not as good". And we are, every bit as good and sometimes better...at entertaining OUR audience.

This is getting tiresome. I rest my case.

Edited September 8, 2007 by Martybucs