A rich kid's sport

[Lancerlady]

Jeez... When I marched, I wasnt local to Sacramento so I moved there... and got a job. I actually lived in the corps hall for a few months til I found my own place. That said, tour fees for us at the time were roughly about $400. Relatively easy ask really! In Freelancers, our corps makeup was roughly half and half... Half from Sacramento and half from SoCal. So we just ran a bus every camp weekend and the SoCal kids paid a few bucks to get them to camp.

Looking back, I guess it was a much simpler time. A bit more rugh around the edges but pure and simple. I guess I am looking at DCI and thinking that it may just sooner than we all know it price itself right out of existence.

It might have been a simpler time in that it didn't cost as much to march then as it did now. But if you marched out of State there were other expenses involved.

I got a part time job during the winters, mostly working on the weekends and some nights to help pay for my plane trips up to Boston to go to Revere to march. Out of Staters were required to be at two winter practices. I don't know if it's changed that much but, then I would fly up early in May to live at the corps hall and in between at the in state guests house, but I got a job working a grave yard shift, then I would have to get up early to go practice all day. It was a lot of sacrifice but I'm glad my parents encouraged me to work for it my last two years. They still helped me. But marching an out of state corps became very costly with plane trips etc...etc...

What I'm saying is if you want to do it bad enough you will find a way to achieve that. I went to school to while working so really I don't see what the excuses are all about these days why kids can't work and do it.

Can anyone give me examples of why you can't work for it and not just depend on sponsors?

Edited November 26, 2007 by Lancerlady

[MikeySaysWoof]

Anyone who doesn't think that Drum Corps is a rich kid's sport needs to have their head examined! I've worked for years with kids from disadvantaged/under-served communities. The cost alone would scare away a significant amount of kids. This doesnt mean that ir's not worth it, you get a great value, etc... It means that kids will self-select to not to participate. This is what often happens in California for kids from low income families when deciding not to attend community college - and you can attend a FULL YEAR of community college in California for under $1,000.

It's incredibly expensive to march (and I apologize if the dork economist comes out here) the opportunity cost for students that decide to march is significant - a full summer of wages lost. While the experience they receive is indeed amazing, that doesn't help pay tuition, rent, food, insurance, etc...

In order for Drum Corps to survive, something has to be done about the escalating costs. If not, DCI (like many activities/sports currently) will be a playground for the rich.

[soccerguy315]

It might have been a simpler time in that it didn't cost as much to march then as it did now. But if you marched out of State there were other expenses involved.

I got a part time job during the winters, mostly working on the weekends and some nights to help pay for my plane trips up to Boston to go to Revere to march. Out of Staters were required to be at two winter practices. I don't know if it's changed that much but, then I would fly up early in May to live at the corps hall and in between at the in state guests house, but I got a job working a grave yard shift, then I would have to get up early to go practice all day. It was a lot of sacrifice but I'm glad my parents encouraged me to work for it my last two years. They still helped me. But marching an out of state corps became very costly with plane trips etc...etc...

What I'm saying is if you want to do it bad enough you will find a way to achieve that. I went to school to while working so really I don't see what the excuses are all about these days why kids can't work and do it.

Can anyone give me examples of why you can't work for it and not just depend on sponsors?

well, change "2 winter practices" to December, January, February, March, April, May, and move-in. Some corps even have 2 camps in some of those months.

Am I correct to understand that you got a job during all-days/spring training? That is not possible now.

As a whole, I think drum corps has become a more year-round activity. Obviously I don't know what it was like "back then", but that's my impression.

At some point, it no longer becomes worth it for the potential members. The actual point where this is the case is different for everyone.

[Lancerlady]

well, change "2 winter practices" to December, January, February, March, April, May, and move-in. Some corps even have 2 camps in some of those months.

Am I correct to understand that you got a job during all-days/spring training? That is not possible now.

As a whole, I think drum corps has become a more year-round activity. Obviously I don't know what it was like "back then", but that's my impression.

At some point, it no longer becomes worth it for the potential members. The actual point where this is the case is different for everyone.

That's why I was asking for examples cause I don't know what it's like in todays drum corps, I want to know why it's harder. That is a harder schedule.

I marched in the mid 80's, so 20 years ago, when the drill demands were just starting to kick in. I marched one of the first of Marc Sylvesters demanding drills in 86. I was a music major with other obligations. So I can relate to that aspect of this conversation.

Yes you are correct to understand that I had moved to Boston early in May and worked a security job doing the graveyard shift for 8 hours, then I'd turn around and go to practice all day. I longed for tour cause I got some rest during that time. I worked at home during school during the week at nights and on weekends to pay for my flights and dues. Plus we had to sometimes do the obligatory memorial day parades at those points as well, which was really rough after working all night..

Anyway, I would like to know of more of the sacrifices of todays schedule etc..I find it interesting.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Lancerlady

[Triple Forte]

Or just get them up to their eyeballs in debt... Perhaps the solution is for more regional touring and a shorter second season. If corps toured regionally perhaps there would also be more of a local identity for each group as well.

Agreed. If prices keep rising, I think DCI will have no choice but to trim down the schedule or create more of a region thing.

Having Student debt and debt from drum corps...tough way to start your life after school.....

Edited November 26, 2007 by Triple Forte

[shostahoosier]

Being fiscally responsible is entirely about money.

Yes, there are plenty of other things you can do with $2000-$5000. Like everything else in life it is a choice. If you are choosing to do something else with the money then you aren't missing out on drum corps because you can't afford it, you are missing out on drum corps because you chose to do something else with your money. Which is fine, it is your money. That is an entirely different situation than the people who are having to help support their families so they can't march.

It IS an entirely different situation. I brought it up as something to think about...not as a rebuttle to people suffering from difficult circumstances as I had to overcome my own to march.

The point I was trying to make is that with the direction that tour fees are headed (well...more accurately, the speed that they are increasing)...potential new marchers might begin looking at alternative activities that can provide months of enriching experiences at a lower price.

If it costs $4000 to march...but I can only muster up $1000-$2000...I might set my sights on something else.

But I guess this doesnt make now any different than the past...save more people will be looking for another affordable way to spend their summer.

I know some people cant be realistic about it...but drum corps, as incredible as it is...is not worth financial ruin or dropping out of school...and isnt the Holy Grail of all activities.

Its natural that tour fees rise....but the rate at which they are rising is unhealthy for the activity...and unhealthy for potential performers.

Great for designers and consultants though.

[drumcat]

Out of curiosity... riddle me this. How high is too high?

I'm not suggesting that tour fees are high or low... but I would say that with the exception of corps that didn't fill, fees are high enough or could be higher. If you approach it from a strictly microeconomic view, you would want to get the most money for your tour offering, and that would be the max that 150 kids will pay, assuming they're reasonably talented.

Given the amount of kids being turned away, I don't know that it's a rich kid sport. I do believe that rich kids get first picks on where they audition. And with that, you will not change that behavior unless it were even more expensive.

Imagine tour fees were $1. Then you'd get even more kids clogging the higher-end corps.

Imagine they were $8000. A lot fewer kids would fly in.

So from the concept of drum corps being a "rich kid" sport, I don't buy it yet. Marching roughly costs the same as a season of youth hockey after you buy all the equipment... assuming you can drive to camp.

If a corps was indeed concerned about winter fees, and I know a director that considers this a viable idea, why not just skip camps from December to April? The guards aren't there anyhow with WGI, the drumlines are at WGI, and it's a PITA to have a short rehearsal and then leave for 5 weeks. Just go two in April, two in May, and have at it for June. Assuming a reasonable move-in time, it's very achievable.

Or how about Devils, and their move-ins... in a way, they've been self-supporting more than anyone...

[suncontra99]

I think you'll find that most, if not all corps are this way. There's always a way to march.

I found that most corps offer ways to offset your dues but that is about as far as most will go.

[sburstall]

well, change "2 winter practices" to December, January, February, March, April, May, and move-in. Some corps even have 2 camps in some of those months.

Am I correct to understand that you got a job during all-days/spring training? That is not possible now.

As a whole, I think drum corps has become a more year-round activity. Obviously I don't know what it was like "back then", but that's my impression.

At some point, it no longer becomes worth it for the potential members. The actual point where this is the case is different for everyone.

Drum corps was year round back then also BUT the corps had most of it's members from the local area (region) and was able to do parades during the off-season. But it was year-round in a different way (good way IMO).

[SkyRyder_FMM]

If it were only that simple. But I do have a few ideas on how to level the playing field:

1. Membership: Every corps that meets the financial and organizational criteria for DCI world-class participation should be a member corps (i.e. not just the top 21).

2. Voting: Every member corps should have full voting rights (i.e. not just those who have made top-21 three years running). And of course, each corps should have an equal vote (i.e. one vote per corps).

3. Judging: The judging pot must be stirred to combat slotting. With all the qualified individuals that teach and judge America's 4000-unit marching band activity, why is the DCI judging pool so small? More fresh faces among the green shirts would certainly help.

4. Judging: Double the GE judges at major shows, averaging their scores so that no single judge has twice the influence of the rest of the panel.

5. Judging: Sequester championship-week GE judges so that they are seeing every corps for the first time.

6. Judging: Reduce GE from 40 to 30 points. Use "celebrity judges", two people of influence in the arts, entertainment, business and/or political world who are seeing every corps for the first time, each given five points to use as they choose, thus injecting a wildcard into the final scoring tally.

7. Money: We all know that "appearance fees" are now equal for all world-class corps, but share money is still tied to competitive placement. At the very least, that should be leveled as well. Better yet, recognize the inherent advantages winners have in souvie sales and sponsorships/endorsements, and scale share payments to pay lower-placing member corps more to compensate.

Other "major leagues" all have some sort of system to boost the fortunes of the losing teams relative to the winning teams, so that competition becomes closer. I am open to ideas on how DCI can do the same, but at this point, given the voluntary nature of drum corps participation, share money is the only parameter I have seen so far that would be fair and practical to use in that manner.

EXCELLENT IDEAS!