A rich kid's sport

[silvertrombone]

I don't want to be a jerk, but...this is exactly what I was attempting to explain.

Its just not as simple as: "Where there is a will, there is a way."

One last example, I would have marched a certain California Corps last year, If I hadn't had my credit card "used" by a family member and left me without the money I had saved.

I hate to bring up stupid personal things. But those types of experiences happen to a great many people.

Hate to lecture, and don't take this personal b/c it applies almost universally, but learn finance...quick. Personal finance and any other you can. I'd hate for you to turn around in 20 years and have a whole bunch of similar anecdotes in your life and be shot financially b/c of them. Life can be really great if you get your financial life in order. Or really heartbreaking and frustrating if not. Doesn't take a huge income, either. I know people of all income spectrums in both great and sour financial situations.

But hearing your credit card/savings anecdote, I just winced. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further. And good for you saving money to do DC! And good luck with any future auditions!

[Jofus]

Niteblaze I take it you haven't marched before, (correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't think you know what it's like coming BACK from drum corps. I returned from the 2006 season with absolutely NO money and no job. Missing an entire summer's worth of work is like paying an extra $2000 or $3000 on top of what I had already spent.

As soon as I returned, as luck would have it, I had a lot of car trouble. I had to replace my transmission and later had to replace a lot of rear suspension parts due to an accident that happened ON THE WAY TO A JOB INTERVIEW. Luckily I know a thing or two about cars and saved a ton of money by doing all the work myself. However, not having a car for a few months means no job. The only way I could pay for my parts was with a credit card, which I'm still paying off.

I was planning on returning to Madison until all this car stuff happened, and I realized there was absolutely no way I could get the money without going into even more debt. So I stayed home and finally got a job. Best decision I could have made.

I worked about 35 hours a week all this summer and made enough to sell my car and buy one that works, move into a new apartment, and save for half of my tour fees this summer. I'll still have a job when I get back, so it's all good.

It's not that drum corps is not worth the money, because it totally is. However, sometimes NOT marching is worth the money. I think it would have been totally stupid and irresponsible for me to have marched last year. You sacrifice enough in one summer to march drum corps, but don't sacrifice your future for it.

[dbc03]

Hello,

After reading several of your..."Opinions"...here is a good example for you.

I age out this coming summer. I have been exposed to the activity since I was 5 years old. My family is full of musicians and the like, had a lot of friends that marched etc.

My parents growing up, had 4 kids, and were never good with money. They still are not, and that was always something out of my control. Ive tried to find the money for the last 6 years to march. Every time I have come up short. I sent countless letters to Doctors, Lawyers, Businesses, friends, family, and anything else I can think of. I never was left with enough.

Due to many reasons ever since I was able to start working (15ish) , I had to help support my family finacially. I have 2 jobs, and only 1 of my 3 siblings are helping along with me, keep my parents off the street. I was however, able to march in Music City Mystique the last 5 years. (Independent World Class Drumline since '95) At this point, the dream ive had of marching Corps is something Im physically doing every thing I can to make happen.

Its going to cost me $5,000 to get this done. But when you have house payments, long time building debt, typical bills, ROUND TRIP tickets once a month from November-February, Camp fees, Food for living, Tour Fees, and Gas money while working, 5,000 is one of the most daunting financial figures I can imagine.

I am planning on selling my car, selling what ever belongings can be sold, and willing to leave my family in a slightly worse position for my 11 minuets at finals. From what I understand, you do not have a concept of just HOW FAR some are willing to go to march, but just CANNOT make that descision.

Get any penny you can for a chance to march, audition, risk getting cut AFTER you spent the money, and be left out on the street. For many people in the States, thats the reality whether you choose to or not.

I can live off of $5,000 for almost a year, no joke. And I know this is a lot of rambling, but you need to get it in your head that most American's view $5,000 as an unbelivable ammount of money.

"Then its not in your best interest to march."

My rebuttle to the fact that you think in absolutes is the following:

What kind of a dream is it, if you aren't willing to truly sacrifice every single thing to get it?

Im willing to be left homeless to march my age out, and to end an amazing performance career with something Ive wanted since childhood. And I have an idea that Ill have a completely different experience standing at retreat than a few others.

I hope that was a good example for you.

All this says is that there are exceptions.

Not everyone can march drum corps. Most people that really want to could if they put forth the necessary effort.

[shostahoosier]

I guess you can say, I am an idealist with the "Where there's a will, there's a way".

I would like to believe that never giving up and persevering can yield great results, even financial situations.

Niteblaze....I agree with you 100% that persevering can yield great results and that attitude will make you a very successful person...in fact...thats one of the things that I learned in drum corps that you couldnt put a price on

...however...one of the things that I learned after returning from my ageout summer of corps is that life off the field doesnt always treat you ideally...(heck...it doesnt necessarily on the field either)

I wish you the best of luck though Niteblaze...I hope you get to experience corps...its incredible!

[dbc03]

Niteblaze I take it you haven't marched before, (correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't think you know what it's like coming BACK from drum corps. I returned from the 2006 season with absolutely NO money and no job. Missing an entire summer's worth of work is like paying an extra $2000 or $3000 on top of what I had already spent.

As soon as I returned, as luck would have it, I had a lot of car trouble. I had to replace my transmission and later had to replace a lot of rear suspension parts due to an accident that happened ON THE WAY TO A JOB INTERVIEW. Luckily I know a thing or two about cars and saved a ton of money by doing all the work myself. However, not having a car for a few months means no job. The only way I could pay for my parts was with a credit card, which I'm still paying off.

I was planning on returning to Madison until all this car stuff happened, and I realized there was absolutely no way I could get the money without going into even more debt. So I stayed home and finally got a job. Best decision I could have made.

I worked about 35 hours a week all this summer and made enough to sell my car and buy one that works, move into a new apartment, and save for half of my tour fees this summer. I'll still have a job when I get back, so it's all good.

It's not that drum corps is not worth the money, because it totally is. However, sometimes NOT marching is worth the money. I think it would have been totally stupid and irresponsible for me to have marched last year. You sacrifice enough in one summer to march drum corps, but don't sacrifice your future for it.

As someone who is still paid for most of his years in drum corps through student loans I say THAT was the best decision I could have made. Haven't regretted it for a second despite the fact I missed out on summer internships and I'll still be paying for it for several years to come. I borrowed the money to march from my future self, and my future self is now my current self and my current self is happy to pay the money he owes for the experience my past self had.

#### happens and life is expensive, but there are only so many years that you can march in DCI. After you turn 22 that's it, game over, you will never be able to buy another year. On the other hand they print more money every day, and I'm ok with the trade off.

[shostahoosier]

As someone who is still paid for most of his years in drum corps through student loans I say THAT was the best decision I could have made. Haven't regretted it for a second despite the fact I missed out on summer internships and I'll still be paying for it for several years to come. I borrowed the money to march from my future self, and my future self is now my current self and my current self is happy to pay the money he owes for the experience my past self had.

#### happens and life is expensive, but there are only so many years that you can march in DCI. After you turn 22 that's it, game over, you will never be able to buy another year. On the other hand they print more money every day, and I'm ok with the trade off.

If you have student loans left over...thats great...they have a low interest rate...

But his post isnt about money...its about being fiscally responsible.

However...if marching for 10 weeks is going to cause you to be homeless, jobless, or setback in your education or career...it might be worth taking a second glance at your options...being completely honest...there are only SO many things that you can do at any point in your life...DCI is one of them...

Drum corps is incredible...but there are plenty of other ways to have fulfilling experiences and STILL be financially responsible.

My roommate just spent 1 month doing the Trans-Siberian railway. He did it for less than $1,200 and had a life changing experience.

If marching was $5000..and I had to chose...I would probably rather spend the summer backpacking through Europe, Asia or South America...and I still doubt that would cost me $5k

I'm sorry if that offends well seasoned vets (I marched 4 years)...but I think even spending $2500 is way out of reach for most.

My first year of drum corps (1995) fees were $575....and that was expensive for a Div III corps...

...I worked minimum wage after school to march the next summer...and barely was able to cover my fees ($640) for the next summer.

I tapped into some of my scholarship money "early" to march corps before my first year of college...but then didnt get to march for another 5 years....and when that year came...I got sticker shock from what corps had come to cost.

[JimF-LowBari]

What...no ISO certification???

Man, if I could have a dollar for all the process improvement acronyms I've swallowed.

I think my agency started that one but it was OBEd (Overcome By Events for you non-Gov't types :P ) by the next "best way to do work" before it got to my level.

One nice thing about being a "worker bee" is usually plans change or training money runs out before this stuff gets to my level. :) (I program, maintain applications and work with Oracle DBAs. )

But none of them had people who could claim colored belt status like Lean Sigma Six.

[dbc03]

If you have student loans left over...thats great...they have a low interest rate...

But his post isnt about money...its about being fiscally responsible.

However...if marching for 10 weeks is going to cause you to be homeless, jobless, or setback in your education or career...it might be worth taking a second glance at your options...being completely honest...there are only SO many things that you can do at any point in your life...DCI is one of them...

Drum corps is incredible...but there are plenty of other ways to have fulfilling experiences and STILL be financially responsible.

My roommate just spent 1 month doing the Trans-Siberian railway. He did it for less than $1,200 and had a life changing experience.

If marching was $5000..and I had to chose...I would probably rather spend the summer backpacking through Europe, Asia or South America...and I still doubt that would cost me $5k

I'm sorry if that offends well seasoned vets (I marched 4 years)...but I think even spending $2500 is way out of reach for most.

My first year of drum corps (1995) fees were $575....and that was expensive for a Div III corps...

...I worked minimum wage after school to march the next summer...and barely was able to cover my fees ($640) for the next summer.

I tapped into some of my scholarship money "early" to march corps before my first year of college...but then didnt get to march for another 5 years....and when that year came...I got sticker shock from what corps had come to cost.

Being fiscally responsible is entirely about money.

Yes, there are plenty of other things you can do with $2000-$5000. Like everything else in life it is a choice. If you are choosing to do something else with the money then you aren't missing out on drum corps because you can't afford it, you are missing out on drum corps because you chose to do something else with your money. Which is fine, it is your money. That is an entirely different situation than the people who are having to help support their families so they can't march.

[audiodb]

You tell me how you arrive at parity under your idea and I can manage the rest of the plan.

If it were only that simple. But I do have a few ideas on how to level the playing field:

1. Membership: Every corps that meets the financial and organizational criteria for DCI world-class participation should be a member corps (i.e. not just the top 21).

2. Voting: Every member corps should have full voting rights (i.e. not just those who have made top-21 three years running). And of course, each corps should have an equal vote (i.e. one vote per corps).

3. Judging: The judging pot must be stirred to combat slotting. With all the qualified individuals that teach and judge America's 4000-unit marching band activity, why is the DCI judging pool so small? More fresh faces among the green shirts would certainly help.

4. Judging: Double the GE judges at major shows, averaging their scores so that no single judge has twice the influence of the rest of the panel.

5. Judging: Sequester championship-week GE judges so that they are seeing every corps for the first time.

6. Judging: Reduce GE from 40 to 30 points. Use "celebrity judges", two people of influence in the arts, entertainment, business and/or political world who are seeing every corps for the first time, each given five points to use as they choose, thus injecting a wildcard into the final scoring tally.

7. Money: We all know that "appearance fees" are now equal for all world-class corps, but share money is still tied to competitive placement. At the very least, that should be leveled as well. Better yet, recognize the inherent advantages winners have in souvie sales and sponsorships/endorsements, and scale share payments to pay lower-placing member corps more to compensate.

Other "major leagues" all have some sort of system to boost the fortunes of the losing teams relative to the winning teams, so that competition becomes closer. I am open to ideas on how DCI can do the same, but at this point, given the voluntary nature of drum corps participation, share money is the only parameter I have seen so far that would be fair and practical to use in that manner.

[IllianaLancerContra]

It is a rich kid's sport - that is the biggest change from the old days when in some places every neighborhood had a corps. It gave the kids something posative to do, promoted teamwork, all that good stuff.

For example, When I lived in Belleville IL I was at library looking up something in an old newspaper - there was a front page review of the weekly corps contest - 10 corps from the immediate area (inc 2 all-girl). There was a local contest every weekend . And at end of the season 1-2 went to VFW nationals.

Drum corps is not like that any more.