BRASSO Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Show us any town in the country where a youth baseball team, youth pop warner football team, youth basketball team, youth soccer team, youth bantom hockey team, etc gets to pick whomever they want for their team, and then the others then get to pick up whats left. Then tell us under that scenario, over the next 35 years, why it would not be logical to assume that that team would not win far more championships in that league than any other team ? Competitive inertia is a theory that I was initially skeptical with. But upon further reflection about 2 years ago, I came around to its value.. as it has solid, demonstable, historical research data to support its thesis, imo. Moving forward, CI explains the result. An unfettered top team selection process explains (at least in some measure) the long term systemic institutional processes that provide us CI over time, imo. Blue Devils not only get the benefit of the doubt the last 35 years with the judges when scores are close with others near them, they get the benefit of the doubt with parents, prospective campers each and every year, and have for decades now. As such, without a sensible and reasonable selection/ transfer policies adoption in DCI, ( that all youth amateur sports teams throughout the western world have ) the Blue Devils will continue at their dominating Championship winning pace for the next 35 years in my opinion. Edited August 11, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 I know people might have issue with my term "allowed," but that points back to the original post, where I said: "If there's any single point of contention, the new corps will never get the benefit of the doubt." I also said this was OK. The entire point of the original post was to show how difficult it is to advance when judges (being realistic, IMO!) have much difficulty in discerning the difference when the quality is very close. The formerly-always-lower-corps-that-is-now-in-contention will, for all practical purposes, not be ALLOWED to place above the already-done-it-lots-of-times corps, because for a judge whose brain is practically mush from the entire competition to make that call would be too much to take in critique (real critique, and the word the following days). If I were judging, I'd probably do the same thing, even subconsciously (as someone said earlier), just for sanity. I don;t think this is wrong...it's survival, and part of the process. It would be wrong if the quality was CLEARLY different, and everyone AGREED it was different (enough).As someone else said, the corps builds inertia by simply improving the formula (better talent, staff, designers, etc). DUH! When all of it comes together, it had better be UNDENIABLE, or no one will pay attention. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 You're not wrong, but I thought that Bruckner's C.I. theory was about the judges: the best corps are essentially indistinguishable in some categories, so when it's too close to call, the judges subconsciously default to the corps that's a proven champion. If the Bluecoats are really one-tenth better than the Blue Devils in category X, the judges will rate the Blue Devils two-tenths better than the Bluecoats. In order for Bloo to score one-tenth better than B.D. in category X, they have to perform five tenths better. Bruckner specifically compared drum corps judges to baseball umpires or basketball referees who give the benefit of the doubt to star players. Ah, if that's the case, I have no evidence for that. I glanced over the thread a few years ago and came back in to comment. Please return to your normal programming. Nothing to see here. *I marched with a girl who spent her drumcorps career with four different corps, each time moving up the ladder year after year.* This type of corp member is what Garfield reminds me of in terms of a certain kind of corpsmember looking for a corps that CAN win. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you marched with her at PC in 07. If so, I don't think her career was looking for a corps that could win, if I'm thinking the same person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Show us any town in the country where a youth baseball team, youth pop warner football team, youth basketball team, youth soccer team, youth bantom hockey team, etc gets to pick whomever they want for their team, and then the others then get to pick up whats left. ... without a sensible and reasonable selection/ transfer policies adoption in DCI, ( that all youth amateur sports teams throughout the western world have ) ... 1. Drum corps is not sports. 2. Corps only get to pick from those that audition. 3. Specifically, what entire western world amateur sports teams poicies would you like to see adopted? What is your definition of "sensible and reasonable?" Edited August 12, 2015 by c mor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) 1. Drum corps is not sports. 2. Corps only get to pick from those that audition. 3. Specifically, what entire western world amateur sports teams poicies would you like to see adopted? What is your definition of "sensible and reasonable?" 1. Correct 2. Correct 3. Correct and who actually cares, ( not many thats for sure ) sensible and reasonable? it isnt either drum corps is also not a local activity drawing its members locally, not for decades. tell someone paying 4 grand to do this they cant be where They want and see what happens..Hmmm actaully it has happened....they leave Edited August 12, 2015 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) . 3. Specifically, what entire western world amateur sports teams poicies would you like to see adopted? What is your definition of "sensible and reasonable?" Any reasonable and sensible transfer policy would be an improvement over no transfer policy at all, imo. Under a no transfer policy that exists right now in DCI, it is currently permissible for any Corps to utilize any transfers from other Corps, up to and including Finals Night. For example, BD utilized the no transfer policy at Championships just a week ago to their legally permissible advantage. The fact that they took another Corps transfer from a Corps that was their own for Championships Week usage, does not negate the fact that they utilized another Corps transfer MM at Championships that was not present for 98% of their competitive season. Nobody but nobody, imo utilizes the current judging sheets and the rules in place at DCI , better than the Blue Devils. This is to their credit. My central point however is that the the Blue Devils will continue on their winning pace of Championships for the next 35 years ( as they have for the last 35 years ) as there is no apparent appetite in DCI to adopt some sensible and reasonable transfer policies that all sports AND all non sport competitive youth endeavors in the western world have had in place since the beginnings of their enterprise. Edited August 12, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Any reasonable and sensible transfer policy would be an improvement over no transfer policy at all, imo. Under a no transfer policy that exists right now in DCI, it is currently permissible for any Corps to utilize any transfers from other Corps, up to and including Finals Night. For example, BD utilized the no transfer policy at Championships just a week ago to their legally permissible advantage. The fact that they took another Corps transfer from a Corps that was their own for Championships Week usage, does not negate the fact that they utilized another Corps transfer MM at Championships that was not present for 98% of their competitive season. Nobody but nobody, imo utilizes the current judging sheets and the rules in place at DCI , better than the Blue Devils. This is to their credit. My central point however is that the the Blue Devils will continue on their winning pace of Championships for the next 35 years ( as they have for the last 35 years ) as there is no apparent appetite in DCI to adopt some sensible and reasonable transfer policies that all sports AND all non sport competitive youth endeavors in the western world have had in place since the beginnings of their enterprise. A question I have is in the case of BD....does a member of one of the ensembles sign a contract with the particular ensemble, or are they sigining with the parent organization. if the latter, this scenario would not legally be a transfer between organizations at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 A question I have is in the case of BD....does a member of one of the ensembles sign a contract with the particular ensemble, or are they sigining with the parent organization. if the latter, this scenario would not legally be a transfer between organizations at all. If a corps season has ended. last show, its over they are free to do as they wish ( unless they owe money ) which is another issue with corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If a corps season has ended. last show, its over they are free to do as they wish ( unless they owe money ) which is another issue with corps Also true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) . tell someone paying 4 grand to do this they cant be where They want and see what happens..Hmmm actaully it has happened....they leave I would like to see "what happens", as a matter of fact. Will it be the end of the Blue Devils ? No, I don't believe so. Do you thnk it would be the end of the Blue Devils if there were sensible and reasonable transfer policies put in place that they and all others would have to subscribe too and compete in ? Why would you think BD would not be able to compete in a system that adopted sensible and reasonable transfer policies ? Parents pay good money now for bantam hockey, up to 3,000- 4,000 grand as well. They don't get to select the team and coaches they want in their leagues with that payment. Sports and other competitive youth endeavors have had transfer policies in place for decades, and it hasn't hurt them in any manner at all. Don't be afraid of change, of adopting sensible policies that work throughout the western world in youth competition. Such an adoption of sensible and reasonable transfer policies in the long run will be good for parents, for Corps, for fans, for marchers, and for the growth of the activity... including competition itself. And competition makes things stronger, not weaker.. I know of no youth sport or competitive youth activity that has suffered in the least from the adoption of sensible and reasonable transfer policies for parents, participants in these enterprises. If you'd care to mention them for us that might have suffered as a result, perhaps we could be enlightened with that listing. Edited August 12, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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