Instructor's caucus

[Tom Brace]

OK, but none of the 1995 finalists were using amps.

The point, at least from my observations, is that the sounds coming from PA speakers are far more directional in nature than the sounds of brass and percussion instruments. As a result, while the fans outside the 40s still get the idea what's going on with the acoustic instruments, the amplified component becomes severely colored at an angular vantage point. Amplified sounds are muffled for those viewers, sometimes so much so as to render them unintelligible.

sorry...I haven't heard it that way...in Madison in 2006 or California last year. Myabe I just have good hearing genes!

[Tekneek]

At the end of the day, we know that the judging of amplification has never really been on the sheets. We know they had a chance to at least talk about that with Tim's proposals, but were extremely happy to avoid the discussion. Not only that, but they've added electronics without really indicating how this might impact judging. It is clear to me that it is no mistake that amplification is in a gray area. These people are intentionally making sure these new elements are as 'off the books' as they can make it, which is bad for the activity. If they are going out of their way to undermine and disrupt any honest attempt to adjudicate the activity, they might as well just get rid of the judges completely.

[euponitone]

The whole "outside the 40s" portion of this thread is just crapola. I've watched. on average, 8-9 drum corps shows a year since 1974. I've sat in the end zone at the Buffalo finals in 1995 for God's sake. Maybe I'm blessed with good hearing but I've never, ever had an issue hearing a drum corps show.

I don't know what some of you all are talking about. Maybe you've been playing drums in a small room without hearing protection.

Lol...if sitting inside the 40's didnt matter, then why do people pay hundreds of dollars to do so

Edited February 4, 2008 by euponitone

[MikeD]

If Hopkins asked for a clarification of the question, and one was provided, then, yes, he should be obligated to answer. If he had not asked for that clarification, then maybe he wouldn't.

It's not opinion that 65% of the audience (roughly 2/3) sits outside the 40's, so there was no loaded question. For example, if the crowd is only seated between the 10's, that's 80 yards. Only 20 yards exist inside the 40's. So, Tim actually downsized the number. It should have been 75%, or 3/4, outside the 40's.

Garry in Vegas

Sure it was. According to your quote, he did not just ask that simple question, he loaded it down with his own opinion, and IMO at that point George was within his rights to not answer. Here is what you said...I bolded part:

Tim asked him whether the design staff spent anytime outside the 40s when developing the narration. He asked "Outside the 40s?". Tim responded, "Yes, the 40 yard lines, where 2/3 of the audience is sitting, (pause) and cannot hear the narration."

It's not even true, so IMO it was an accusatory loaded question.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

yeah -- the corps will point to the 10 yard line.

You missed the point, dude.

[bawker]

It's not even true, so IMO it was an accusatory loaded question.

...and rightfully so.

Is it really too much to ask for people to be held accountable for their designs?

[MikeD]

...and rightfully so.

Is it really too much to ask for people to be held accountable for their designs?

The designers are accountable for their designs. They get evaluated by the judges and the fans every time they perform.

[audiodb]

Sure it was. According to your quote, he did not just ask that simple question, he loaded it down with his own opinion, and IMO at that point George was within his rights to not answer.

I don't understand your objection. He asked a simple question - whether the design staff spent any time outside the 40 yard lines. Evidently, Hopkins did not understand why he was asking, and would not answer. He had no choice but to elaborate, or get no answer. (Either way, he got no answer.)

Furthermore, if matters involving opinion are off-limits for discussion with Mr. Hopkins, then his proposals cannot be discussed. They have certainly been loaded with plenty of his opinions over the years.

[TerriTroop]

The designers are accountable for their designs. They get evaluated by the judges and the fans every time they perform.

Which brings me back to the original question I posted in the "now that electronics are in" thread:

Who is going to make sure that an all-acoustic corps is not indirectly penalized for their design choice? My point being, I think it's time to stop comparing apples and oranges. A corps that goes all acoustic should not have to prove themselves against a corps that has amps, electronics, etc. Technically, the sheets evaluate each corps individually, but we know that there is still slotting. This is going to be even more complicated with this new element of electronic instrumentation and extended amplification.

Designers get evaluated by the judges, and that is a very subjective area. If the judges are going to be trained by DCI to EXPECT all corps to have electronic equipment of every sort, any corps that want to avoid electronics are going to be at a competitive disadvantage. For the sake of diversity, the sheets must make it clear that any corps that is working within a purely acoustic realm (or even mostly acoustic - i.e. only the pit is amplified) is given a fair shot at advancing in placement.

Edited February 4, 2008 by TerriTroop

[whitedawn]

You missed the point, dude.

no, i understood the point perfectly.