DCA is "filling a void" left by DCI's Super Corps Model

[Kyle B]

It either states that the corps can't have competed this year in DCI or last year....I'm thinking it says last year.

[EndzoneEric]

It either states that the corps can't have competed this year in DCI or last year....I'm thinking it says last year.

I thought it was the current year. In other words, you couldn't complete the DCI season and then show up and compete for the DCA title.

[Bruckner8]

<<Theory: It is no longer possible in the DCI system for a limited tour organization to give its membership a truly valuable competitive experience because there are no truly viable alternatives within the DCI Super Corps model other than "getting on the bus."

>>

What exactly is the VOID stated in the title of the thread? Is there a void? If kids don't want to march all summer, they can do DCA. Been that way forever. I guess it's been a void forever. Then you go on trying to explain that DCA is just as good, quality-wise, citing recent hornline examples.

Excellence is a function of TIME and TALENT (assuming the personality of the talented actually cares, which is hardly the case, but I digress...)

The fact that DCI strives to maximize the TIME AND the TALENT by having everyone "on the bus" should be commended, not ridiculed.

DCA will NEVER, EVER be as excellent as DCI, for two reasons: TIME AND TALENT. They rehearse less often, and have more-diluted talent than any Super Corps.

Before you jump on me, realise that I've marched DCI "Super Corps" and DCA. I've been to DCI Finals and DCA Finals. I've been to DCI tour shows and DCA shows. The two activities are very different, and I hope it stays that way. The music-degree-holding artsy-fartsy side of me loves the excellence of DCI, whilst the Guinness-holding red-neck in me loves the rawness of DCA. Sometimes, a raw corps comes through DCI, and an excellent corps comes through DCA...not consistently, and never on the same night, but it does happen. I love it!

My point is: I don't see a void whatsever. DCA and DCI fill niches, thus leaving no voids, unless you want to hear marching band. I couldn't care less that 1,000,000 drum corps used to show up to Marion, and now only 6 show up. Kids have found other, less-physically-intenisve things to do with their free time. Good for them! Obviously, the excericse, music, performances, crowds, etc weren't enough to keep them interested. God Bless America.

[Tom Brace]

Maybe if Obama switched to Bb...

If it makes you feel any better, I declared myself a Democrat today so I could vote for Obama. Ohio doesn't have an open primary like Michigan so I couldn't stay independent.

Thanks for the help Kevin.

[Fred Windish]

First of all, I want to thank Bruckner for the excellent post. Please indulge me now, as I try to explain my previously stated contribution.

DCI really IS an organization that represents the highest standard of (technical) performace, state-of-the-art presentation, and leading-edge progression of the marching music art. What DCI presents is INCREDIBLE and displays the pinnacle of this activity. Unfortunately, achieving and maintaining that same level is very costly, well beyond MOST community organizations with any interest in marching music. The number of those at that level SHOULD BE expected to be limited to a small number of (capable) organizations. So what about the rest?

There are other ways to do marching music at a less intense (and costly) level. One of those alternatives is DCA, and other all-age drum corps presentations. A market IS available there, too. That market is open to any organization having interest.

Does all-age fill a void?

YES!

. . . but only for those organizations who SEE a void!

[Tank]

4. Not everyone is ever going to agree completely with the rules changes proposed and adopted by DCI. These rule changes, however, do not force corps to purchase more equipment, buses, trucks, etc. Corps choose to make these decisions in order to remain "in their own internal definition" competitive.

Paging Jeff Fiedler . . .

[monoemono]

3. DCI is not killing drum corps. Corps mismangement is killing drum corps and the same is true no matter the circuit. Bad management caused drum corps to cease operations way before DCI was ever thought of. Bad management is a problem and a reason for many not-for-profit organizations to suffer and cease their operations.

I don't see how the current touring model of DCI Div. I corps can be taken out of consideration of being a factor in the demise of some corps. DCI has been raising the bar on what it takes to be a Div. I group just about every year. Is that the only factor putting pressure on corps management? No, certainly not. But it is A factor.

The upshot of all of this is that there is much less margin of error for corps management. Does that mean management is not to blame? No, of course not. But when you see so many groups struggling, even strong ones (Regiment?), you have to start scratching your head and wondering if there may be a problem.

DCI has apparently decided that it wants to ONLY be in the business of these "Super Corps", as people have taken to calling them. That's fine, but ultimately it means that only a handful are going to get to play. Does that leave a "void" in the activity? For those like me that think more drum corps is better than less, YOU BET!

Fortunately, it does seem that there is a groundswell of new ideas to help fill this void--I like this whole "small corps" thing that's happening now. It's a start, anyway. I don't see too many struggling DCI corps switching to DCA, but maybe there is an in-between where there can be a junior corps organization that operates more along the lines of DCA.

[Jeff Ream]

This thread has become a joke. It a few people fighting. Trying to defend DCA to basically TWO people who are in LOVE with DCI and ANYTHING said close to be a negative maybe to DCI even if it is not meant to be will be just as that. Tom is just going to keep posting his negative stuff no matter what, But the more you aim it at him the more ammo you give him. The bad part is the other is a moderator. How that happened as someone posted earlier with his track record gets me.

So it is just really funny this is going no where. Which is what the two wanted so it would get shut down.

we could sit here all day and debate this. But the only ones that are going to do anything are the boards of DCI and DCA until then everything is Moot. Because that is not going to happen anytime soon.

I think if the two worked TOGETHER Drum Corps could be really Good again..

Continue on. THis is good entertainment at times..

actually, relations between DCI and DCA are the best they have been in YEARS if not decades.

[wishbonecav]

The question was posed...where is the void?

If I may.....

There is a void in opportunity for the music student or drum corps enthusiast who cannot afford to "get on the bus". Not just afford to march in the new DCI monetary model, but also cannot afford the time spent during a summer where an internship or summer job are equal in priority to participating in making music.

Mind you, the opportunity to do well at both used to exist for that type of student. You'd work during the day, have midweek evening rehearsal, travel to local contest on the weekend (with Saturday & Sunday all-days built in) then head back home and do it again until "tour" which was 2 weeks or so...but NOT the WHOLE summer.

Responsibilities met...fun activity participated in...sights seen...friends made...couple o' bucks saved for school...sounds like a good summer to me.

Can't do that if the requirement to participate in ONE eliminates the other entirely. Limited Tour / weekend model means "hey, I bet I can do BOTH".

"Get on the bus" means "no summer gig."

Let me try to personalize this with an example:

If I am a college student at University of Washington...music major or business major, doesn't matter...I used to have the opportunity to do corps with the Oregon Crusaders, Seattle Cascades, Spartans, or Marauders. Now I have no corps within 600 miles of me and, if I DO manage to get a spot in that corps over the winter, guess what I have to do to participate? "Get on the bus." No internship for me.

If I am a student in Montreal, it's a similar scenario. I used to have the opportunity with Academie Musicale, L'Insolite, Les Etoiles, or Dimension. Now? No corps in Quebec. Where do I go to march? If I need a summer job, looks like I don't.

The same in Ontario, Wisconsin, New York, Texas, Florida (!)...the same just about everywhere. If I want to be in drum corps but have ANY OTHER COMMITMENTS whatsoever, I am just about OUT OF LUCK....unless there's a corps near me that lets me do both.

Think about this:

The reason the Hurricanes, Bushwackers, Caballeros (Tri-State area), Statesmen, Brigadiers, Crusaders (upstate and Canada), Minnesota Brass (midwest), Renegades (California) are fielding nearly full corps these days is because they are getting YOUNGER and because there are no other CHOICES for the student type that is still looking for a place to play.

There is no more Patriots, Lancers, Ventures, Kips Bay, Kavaliers, LE Regiment, LV Knights, ECJ or Phoenix in the East/Canada. So where can I play? Pretty easy choice...it's Cabs, Hurcs, Bush, Empire or Cru.

It isn't DCA that is filling a void in the competitive activity...so much as it's DCA that fills a void of opportunity.

Can you say that it is almost by DEFAULT that this is happening? Maybe you can.

I am not sure that any DCA corps went out of there way to do ANYTHING differently to attract these newer, younger members. It might have just "happened."

They might have even said "holy crap! where did all these horn players come from?" at their winter rehearsals.

Fact is, those students DON'T have a home anymore at the Junior level. No local corps...no chance to play.

The point I'm making is there is STILL GOOD DRUM CORPS to be made on the WEEKEND. There's still GOOD DRUM CORPS that can be made with a limited touring model.

The PROOF is on the field!

I didn't jump out of my seat for the Buccaneers closer and stay standing for the last 30 seconds of their show just to be polite. I COULDN'T HELP IT! It was GOOD DRUM CORPS!

Same for Cabs.

Same for Empire.

Same for Renegades (OMG, that hornline!).

Same for Bushwackers '06 and '07 (horns in 06...wow!)

I am so thankful that the weekend student has these groups that present not only an opportunity for PARTICIPATION, but also an opportunity for EXCELLENCE.

Please...don't miss the point.

It isn't about right or wrong or DCA versus DCI.

We are where we are. How we got here isn't as important as WHERE WE GO FROM HERE.

The fact is that DCI's "get on the bus" model has created a slate of Super Corps at the expense of the rest. This is very hard to deny. What is gained at the top has an ancillary COST. Just this year, it cost Southwind and Seattle. And it's too late to turn the tide. It's pretty much done. If you had to guess, in the next 5 years, is it more likely that DCI will get 5 corps bigger or 5 corps smaller?

All-age...wherever they are... at least gives the "other" student a fighting chance to be in the conversation.

And to make GOOD DRUM CORPS.

Edited March 5, 2008 by wishbonecav

[Bruckner8]

Opportunity.

I love this topic. Are we in the USA? Yes. Then we have opportunity. It might not be the most CONVENIENT opportunity, but it's there. You're not going to get a lot of play from this guy, who dropped College Spring Quarter, drove 2500 miles from Cleveland to Santa Clara in April, and worked fulltime at Pizza Hut in San Jose a full two months prior to first tour.

I created my opportunity. The Cleveland Cabelleros were right there. I wanted what I wanted, and I thought it through, and came up with a solution, with help from experienced people. (advice, not financial) I was very lucky too, cuz one of the Cabelleros happened to have done the same thing the year prior, and made me a believer. HE HAD VISION. AND WENT FOR IT. He paved the way.

To us, it was a no-brainer to blow off college. It was a no-brainer to work fulltime to support our habit. We had a priority, and it was Drum Corps. What you're proposing is the "I want it all, cake and all, and I want it on my terms...otherwise, it's not an opportunity."

We were DRIVEN by the potenitality of the excellence, and we understood the commitment needed to reach that level of excellence. Granted, maybe you're super-talented and can achieve very high levels of excellence in short times, and you resent having to share the long times with others. I gotta tell ya, as someone who feels very confidnet in his talent, I still understood the meaning of "That was great! Do it again!" Striving toward artistic perfection, in a TEAM SPORT takes that commitment.

What you're calling a void, is really just a metaphor for "Gee, I really wish I could work, go to school, see my gf, talk to my buddies, rock on playstation, go to concerts...oh, and march/n/play my horn a few days a week too."

It's not a void, it's a choice. Excellence is a choice, just as it's a function of TIME AND TALENT.

I have no problem with your choice, either. It makes sense for lots of people, apparently. You're ok with the level of excellence achieved, and maybe it even rivals some of the lower DCI corps. AWESOME!

And maybe someday, DCI will be only 4 corps with 250 members each. And that will be cool with me, as long the level of excellence keeps going up (as it has since day one)

I have a problem with people calling it a void, and/or lack of opportunity.