2008 Standings

[TastyWaves]

not to be disrespectful but you wouldn't know about execution because you were to young to be under the tick system. that was true execution. sorry but it's all about the show. not execution. well not really. a little execution but not much. like i said not to be disrespectful.

uh huh... this song and dance again.

You wouldnt know about having to be responsible for visual aspects, performance quality or playing on the move.

Nowadays, you only arc it up for a stand still, or for a warm up. Not for the whole show.

Anyone can play standing perfectly still or moving at a 12 to 5.

by the way, the new york giants suck because they didnt win the super bowl with Leather Helmets.

Didnt count!

[Fastone]

not to be disrespectful but you wouldn't know about execution because you were to young to be under the tick system. that was true execution. sorry but it's all about the show. not execution. well not really. a little execution but not much. like i said not to be disrespectful.

\

I marched under both systems I will tell you , you've been away from it too long. Under the tick system there were numerous arguments about the position of the judges at a given time and their biases regarding style which should have nothing to do with it imo. With the tuning today, there are no gray areas. Remember unit penalties? it was up to a judges discretion when to access them, lot's of arguements about that. The tick system was arbitrary and capricious at best. A lot of folks from back in the day feel that scores are inflated today but honestly if you're in first and get a 9.9 out of 10 or a 5.5 does it really matter? Execution hasn't changed, the judging criteria of it has. Clean is still clean

Edited August 2, 2008 by Fastone

[donincardona]

uh huh... this song and dance again.

You wouldnt know about having to be responsible for visual aspects, performance quality or playing on the move.

Nowadays, you only arc it up for a stand still, or for a warm up. Not for the whole show.

Anyone can play standing perfectly still or moving at a 12 to 5.

by the way, the new york giants suck because they didnt win the super bowl with Leather Helmets.

Didnt count!

i tried to be nice but no you have to be obtuse. sorry but we did our fair share on marching. yes the drills today are harder but our music was tough. and saying things you do shows just how much you don't know. were you even born when the tick system was in force? look it's two differnt era's. the tick system was more about execution. the build up or whatever it's called today is about show desighn. it's different but you wouldn't know that. i'm not knocking anything but you youngun's think we're just old fart's. well sonny in 30 years you will be one to. and if drum corps still exist's the kids will think your crazy and living in the past. i will say that i don't go to shows becuase for one thing i really don't care but i like to follow it on dcp and interact with my old friends and get you young people riled up. and you know what, it works. settle down. show some respect to the people and tradiotions that came before you and made it possible for you to do what it is that you do. this is not life and death and in the end it means nothing only that you have fun and make memories for youself and friends. then when you get my age you can break the youngun's testes to. in 30 years who do you think will care who won DCA in 2008? do you care who one in 1969. do you even know without looking it up? who won 1970? 1966? how bout 1972 and how many point's spread from 1st-5th. you don't know . that's my point that matters to me becuse it was my time. like i said 30years from now who will care. and by then there will be a dfferent system and instruments and drill and what your doing will look simple and stupid to the young ones. ease up and don't get so ###### because what us old guy's forgot you still have to learn.

oh and by the way i hate the giants. i live in florida. i like the dolphins. ohand they never ever wore leather helmets. lol

[MoonHill]

not to be disrespectful but you wouldn't know about execution because you were to young to be under the tick system. that was true execution. sorry but it's all about the show. not execution. well not really. a little execution but not much. like i said not to be disrespectful.

And like I said, if today's scoring was "all about the show" and not about execution, then '93 Freelancers would've been in the top 6.

They weren't, entirely because of execution.

I'm a huge fan of drum corps shows from the tick system days, and if you honestly think that execution isn't a factor in today's scoring system because it was more of one under the tick system, then, no disrespect intended, you're being delusional.

[sydstranda]

I know this is kinda meaningless to post between Allentown nights, but in order to be true to the topic, and because no one else has done it;

1 The Cavaliers 95.900

2 Blue Devils 95.650

3 Carolina Crown (93.800)

4 Phantom Regiment (93.250)

5 Cadets (92.900)

6 Bluecoats 90.800

7 Santa Clara Vanguard (89.500)

8 Glassmen 86.650

9 Blue Stars (86.650)

10 Boston 86.350

11 Blue Knights 86.200

12 Crossmen (84.600)

13 Madison 84.425

14 Colts (84.100)

15 Spirit (81.750)

16 Troopers 80.075

17 Pacific Crest (78.800)

18 Academy 78.025

19 Mandarins 77.600

20 Pioneer (73.450)

(Parenthesis denotes old score)

[donincardona]

\

I marched under both systems I will tell you , you've been away from it too long. Under the tick system there were numerous arguments about the position of the judges at a given time and their biases regarding style which should have nothing to do with it imo. With the tuning today, there are no gray areas. Remember unit penalties? it was up to a judges discretion when to access them, lot's of arguements about that. The tick system was arbitrary and capricious at best. A lot of folks from back in the day feel that scores are inflated today but honestly if you're in first and get a 9.9 out of 10 or a 5.5 does it really matter? Execution hasn't changed, the judging criteria of it has. Clean is still clean

yeah i know about how screwed up it was but it's what i was under. yes i've been away for a long time. in case you haden't notice i like to give the kids a hard time to have fun with them. it so easy to set them off. thry get really defensive and then i laugh. the old timers in my day did the same thing to me and i'm sure you to. ya know the story they were better then us. it's all relevent. this is why i stay in the historical forum mostly. most of our brains think alike. you know it cause your there all the time

peace

[donincardona]

And like I said, if today's scoring was "all about the show" and not about execution, then '93 Freelancers would've been in the top 6.

They weren't, entirely because of execution.

I'm a huge fan of drum corps shows from the tick system days, and if you honestly think that execution isn't a factor in today's scoring system because it was more of one under the tick system, then, no disrespect intended, you're being delusional.

i'll be checking into the physc ward in the mornig....lol.

[MoonHill]

i'll be checking into the physc ward in the mornig....lol.

Stay away from the red pills. They'll rip you right out of The Matrix, which is not as fun as it sounds!

[rayfallon]

When I read some of these posts I understand why they call us dinosaurs. I'll be 57 in 6 weeks. I played, taught and judged under both systems, at a relatively high level - Sun, Hurcs, 78 Bridgemen, to name a couple. National Judges, the original CMBC Cadet Marching Band Circuit, Cavalcade of Bands in Philadelphia, to name a couple more.

Judging has always been subjective. That's why you could go to a show and get a 13.6 from Roger Olsen and a 12.7 from Sandra Opie in performance. It's not that one had better ears than the other (I picked those two because they were both magnificent - and 12.7 is, if I remember, what Blue Devils won high performance with at prelims in '78, after they'd been averaging around a 14.0 for two weeks. Pepe Nataro used to peak at about a 10.4... by FINALS!!!

Anyone... ANYONE could zero out any group in any caption if they ticked every mistake. There has never been a truly straight line out there. The distance and interval has never been "perfect" in any form. it just isn't.

The system was a bad one - you were penalized for obvious mistakes, while some corps who never played two notes in tune skated by because they sounded pretty much the same all the way through.

The system was bad... and here's a shocker - so were the horns - Olds made a good bugle - American Heritage made one for about a year, and King toward the end of the dinosaur times... whoops I left out the really old Conn French horns - sweet bugles if ever there was one - the mellophones? OH MY GOD!!! Brutal.

The good old days weren't always good, and when we run this falderal on these kids as if they missed the Golden Age of D&B Corps - we come across as, to be kind, dinosaurs (you could say much worse and be accurate.)

Did I enjoy it? You bet. Would I trade it? No way. Could a top 12 corps do a show of "The King and I" or "Oklahoma" now and pull it off? I don't know - but I suspect that that train has left the station. It's evolution, or maybe Unintelligent Design, and you evolve, or you go the way of the dinosaurs.

The tick died in 1983. RIP. Good Riddance. BTW if you don't think performance counts today, go on tour as a tech and see the beating you get in critiques if your show isn't clean. and by clean I mean just as clean, no - usually much cleaner - these kids are better taught from 4th grade on (private lessons - how many of us dinosaurs got private lessons in 4th grade? (I had Henry Heyster telling me to puff my cheeks, blow, and move the valve in and out on an enharmonic G that he figured would cover all the important harmonies!!!) You want to make monuments out of your memories - be my guest, but don't insult these kids - they know better. (climbing gingerly off the soap box - my back isn't as good as it used to be since I broke it three years ago - sucks to be a dinosaur)

[rayfallon]

I know this is kinda meaningless to post between Allentown nights, but in order to be true to the topic, and because no one else has done it;

1 The Cavaliers 95.900

2 Blue Devils 95.650

3 Carolina Crown (93.800)

4 Phantom Regiment (93.250)

5 Cadets (92.900)

6 Bluecoats 90.800

7 Santa Clara Vanguard (89.500)

8 Glassmen 86.650

9 Blue Stars (86.650)

10 Boston 86.350

11 Blue Knights 86.200

12 Crossmen (84.600)

13 Madison 84.425

14 Colts (84.100)

15 Spirit (81.750)

16 Troopers 80.075

17 Pacific Crest (78.800)

18 Academy 78.025

19 Mandarins 77.600

20 Pioneer (73.450)

(Parenthesis denotes old score)

I have no dog in the show, (except that my son works with Boston) but I'm going out on a limb and predicting that one corps between 10 and 12 will be out and Madison in. I don't hope for it, don't have any feelings one way or another, except a personal loyalty to Boston, but that's what I think.