hornlines 08

[rut-roh]

Loud is nothing without the soft that precedes it. DYNAMIC CONTRAST is good.

[TealEuph7]

Just remember, it's not all about volume. Dynamic contrast, tone quality, and all that other stuff is just as important.

[dc oldtimer]

Loud -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Loud is right.

Loud works.

Loud clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the drum corps spirit.

Loud, in all of its forms – loud horns, loud percussion, loud fans -- has marked the upward surge of DCI.

And loud -- you mark my words -- will not only save DCI, but that other malfunctioning organization called the USA.

LOL!!! Love it GG.

[Kekkles]

Loud -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Loud is right.

Loud works.

Loud clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the drum corps spirit.

Loud, in all of its forms – loud horns, loud percussion, loud fans -- has marked the upward surge of DCI.

And loud -- you mark my words -- will not only save DCI, but that other malfunctioning organization called the USA.

lol.

[wvu80]

the two of you should go to a corner and point at each other for a while, till you get tired of this :lookaround:

Hey, at least my board name isn't "mad." (where's that "sticking your tongue out" emoticon when you really need it?)

I always post with a smile on my face.

[wvu80]

Hey guys - I appreciate people rushing to my defense, but its really not necessary. I've sent Hop a PM, and we'll talk whenever he gets time. It was just a misunderstanding of a joke, and given that he doesnt hang here 5 hours a day, I'm not surprised that he took it that way. We'll work it out

A classy post and a classy move, Nick. Thanks for that clarification.

[euponitone]

A classy post and a classy move, Nick. Thanks for that clarification.

Thanks. Did anyone ever talk about which hornline was the loudest though?? I dont think so

[jwillis35]

Loud -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Loud is right.

Loud works.

Loud clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the drum corps spirit.

Loud, in all of its forms – loud horns, loud percussion, loud fans -- has marked the upward surge of DCI.

And loud -- you mark my words -- will not only save DCI, but that other malfunctioning organization called the USA.

I love that movie. "Wall Street" was great, and I think you could use this Michael Douglas quote in a number of situations. This was brilliant.

JW

[euponitone]

I love that movie. "Wall Street" was great, and I think you could use this Michael Douglas quote in a number of situations. This was brilliant.

JW

Guess I missed that one. Hey, did you hear the joke about the cloud???

Edited June 27, 2008 by euponitone

[Bob984]

The whole premise of this thread is such a disappointment to me. I understand - "loud" hornlines are fun to listen to and it's great to have your facial hair peeled off your face from a screaming trumpet player. But - here is my question:

The mentality of almost every other section of the modern drum corps has developed to be cerebral and intelligent in ways of design and execution EXCEPT the hornline. Why is that?

I realize - YES, we have B-flat horns now and YES we have 3-4 button tubas and whatever - I understand the actual developments in the equipment. But the end expectation is still the same: louder. While loud is good, a characteristic sound is better. I can't tell you how many talented euphonium and trombone players treat their marching baritone like a bass trumpet. There are so many occasions where I'll hear a tuba player red line his/her sound and distort rather than resonate. If only all of our mellophone players truly treated the instrument as what it can be: an alto voice with a beautiful french horn sound. Can it not be done? Refer to Cavaliers 2005 - incredible french horn sound from those mellophones.

Our hornline caption heads are constantly searching for talented instrumentalists from colleges and universities. However, the drum corps industry is in a constant fight of validity from music professors. Why? If I were a trumpet professor and I heard 95% of the drum corps today forcing sound, I'd can the idea of drum corps altogether. Advocates of loud over characteristic sound will make all sorts of excuses - "this is not an orchestra" or "this is how drum corps is supposed to sound" or "marching instruments are designed for this sort of playing" - the list goes on and on, as I'm sure it will after I press "Add reply".

As a music educator, my goal would be for the drum corps organizations to promote music and educate show-goers on what a quality brass ensemble should sound like. Indoor playing characteristics should be the same as outdoor playing characteristics. Volume can be different - for sure - but the physical way you perceive your own sound should NOT change when you step on the football field.

Ok, so - I realize to this point, most people have read this post and thought, what an egotistical conservatory ########. You'd be surprised to find quite the opposite. I've just chosen to prefer a brass sound that is acceptable to educators and experts in the field of music education and performance.

To adapt a Wynton Marsalis quote: "The sound most drum corps hornlines may make us feel good, like a candy bar feels good, but there's no nutrition. The foundation of any music education cannot be found in "louder and higher". That’s not how you train the ears of a musician or even a non-musician. That’s not how you lead kids into a deeper understanding of who they are or who they will be, which is even more important. We’re depriving them of a fundamental part of their educational development, and our nation is really much poorer for it." -> it may be a stretch, but there are some valid points in there.

Please, discuss my comments if you wish - but do so in a cerebral fashion. The "you suck" or whatever is funny, but it's also a reflection of the replyer. If you have something to say, make it a college answer - maybe you might even change my mind - if you are convincing enough!

I'm a music educator. You would be right that the "legit" music community has not historically been a big fan of drum corps. Frankly, this goes back to days of old when many corps "blew the spit valve off the horn", and tone quality was not the most musical....many performers were non-trained, and many even learned by rote....that said, there was still some noteable and even amazing things being done....1st, they had to play on inferior instruments...2 valve, and before that, valve-rotor. I was fortunate to have the 1975 Vanguard as my 1st viewing of a junior corps....to this day, I marvel how they played Kodaly's Hary Janos suite (a piece that would be hard for many drum corps today) with those horns....a friend also played me an old recording of the Argonne Rebels playing "Fanfare for the New" in the early 70's...clearly ahead of their time...I do think we have had improved and acceptance from the musical community. Many misconceptions still exist though among the university community, mostly due to the fact that they may not have experienced the activity in many a year. One point which may be valid is that a drum corps performer spends countless hours working on 10 minutes of music, and I think university professors may feel that a performer could work on a ton of music in that amount of time elsewhere. True, but I think that the "work ethic" that a drum corps performer learns. even in only a season or two, is worth it and can be transfered to their lives when they are done with corps.

A typical brass choir may have 12 - 25 brass....some of the "brass bands" may be larger. A drum corps uses 2 to 3 times that number....our acoustical environment is much different than indoors, and the best brass lines today try to perform with good musical quality with control. However, dynamic contrast is a key element of music, and the best of groups try for an extreme range. This is true in any genre. Go to an orchestral french horn audition...nearly all of the players will have excellent intonation and articulation...however, the player who wins will usually have great expression and a greater dynamic range. Air support is the key to a great brass sound in ANY situation....the best groups play with a highly supported sound at all times.

I do think there is substantial room for growth in quality of brass arrangements being performed, and for more musical risks to be taken. I feel we have sacrificed the music to a point in order to try to accomplish very difficult visual programs with a ton of sets. There are definitely corps out there, including a champion, who have put the visual product in a higher place of importance than the musical product. I also think visual demands make it extremely hard to try to maintain musical quality. It would be interesting to see what would happen if a major competitor consciously decided to do less drill to create and concentrate on extreme musical demands.....after all, we do have talented guards as large as 40 people now who do not have to play an instrument who can supply much visual support. Would it be so bad if the musicians marched at 100 beats per minute while the guard marched 200 when the music is at 200bpm? It may actually be quite effective if staged well.

You are correct that we do have a society which reacts to and has the "loud and fast" philosophy...you turn on the radio and hear a metal band that has loud distortion chords and a vocalist screaming whatever....I don't like it, but millions do.....we have had rap for ions now.....somebody chanting senseless stuff in time ad nauseum to a drum beat...not even a melody to be had....for me, it grows old fast. Go into a school and play a 15 minute symphony movement.....the kids are freaked, because it is not 3 minutes. It is like comparing gulping your fast food drivethrough food in 3 minutes, or sitting down and having a full meal that lasts over an hour. This also represents the challenge for an arranger.....to write an effective chart that has great musical flow and do it in a condensed time period. To me, some of the arrangers are "missing the boat" here, but some are succeeding. To me, it's always about the music......a show with great musical arrangements, masterfully performed. Visual presentation is important, but for me, meaningless unless the music product is great in it's own right. I think if you want a musical presentation with no big impacts (ie loud), drum corps is not your place. But I believe you are mistaken when you say that you can't have big musical impact without quality, and frankly, fans live for those moments, as there is no sound anywhere else quite like 70 horns hitting a power chord with great quality.

GB