Flaming bag on the front door step

[jwillis35]

George is doing this to push the envelope, I agree. However, the only way he is going to win the crowd over is if the crowd continues to debate it. Its the same in politics: do something controversial, don't admit your error, keep pushing in the same direction, and eventually history will be on your side. This works with the same concept as, there is no such thing as bad press. History has shown (2005, 2006, 2007) that grumbling about the Cadets eventually gives way to complacency, and then admiration. This is George's mondo bizarro philosophy of drum corps and if dialog like this continues, he will continue to win and press forward. This sort of thing would never have went over well 20 years ago and I suspect that the reason his approach works today is because of his blog and the existence of DCP.

Break the cycle.

The solution: Talk less about the Cadets.

Exactly! Now here I think you are right on, 100%!

I realize I am one of the few who actually like their show this year, and last year I was very critical of it. Others liked last year much better, and some have not liked the Cadets for a while (maybe years). I think we can all just agree to disagree when it comes to this topic, narration, and its effectiveness in a drum corps show. Some like it, some do not, some will give it a chance, but how it's used is critical.

I have this feeling people are not going to be too thrilled with the Bluecoats narration once all of it is in the show, and once it actually starts working more consistently (don't know what the heck is up with their mics). I liked it a lot, but have not heard all of it.

Here is my point, I believe that 2008 is shaping up to be quite an exciting and enjoyable DCI season. Judging from the corps I saw in Toledo, and judging from the Madison webcast, it seems there are a lot of entertaining shows out there. Lots of melody, thematic development, great show design, and it looks as though we will have a slugfest once again in the top 7/8, as well as seeing who makes the top 12.

Yet, in the midst of all that, and instead of spending our time loving the great shows and discussing those shows, people are bent on complaining about the Cadets, the one show that may have bothered them out of 7, 8, or more shows at an event. Heck, even if I had not liked the Cadets show this year, I would have found the Toledo show worthwhile. I would have walked out of that stadium thinking 8 out of 9 corps were very enjoyable shows, and one I could do without. In my book that's a win/win, a near 100% satisfaction ratio that should send me home in a great mood (and I was in a great mood after that show).

The people in Madison saw a fantastic show, yet instead of reveling in that, many fans are jumping all over the Cadets.

Now, I understand it. I understand that many are still going to fight the "good cause" as they see it, that narration is bad for the activity, and therefore a higher agenda is in place. Obviously they have a right to make their claims. Same is true with electronics, amps, Bb brass and more. So I am not saying they can't, but it seems like a lot of work when only one corps at the moment is really taking this "too far" as some may put it. I have not seen these effects [The Cadets programming] force other drum corps to copy or fall-in-line; and the shows, as I said before, seem to be very good and entertaining this year.

It's almost as if the one bad show is taking away from the 9 good shows we see at a contest. Maybe this is true for some, but for me I think that's a shame. If you hate the Cadets shows, just ignore them, go get your hot dog, but this kind of investment in time on DCP spent doing nothing but complaining and arguing, and where nothing is getting accomplished and we are just getting mad at each other, and insults then start flying...well, none of this is worth it.

Those of us who have supported their shows, or perhaps just support this current show, are not the ones who have started these "pick on Cadets" posts. We often try to provide counter-point to the arguments and complaints being made, especially when they come across hateful and mean-spirited, which is exactly what I try to do. I have no interest in the Cadets, I do not help them fund that corps, could care less what they perform, but I like to be honest when I think they are amazing and have a nice show, and also when they don't. But it's just amazing to me how much time we, DCP, spend discussing these guys and their director.

So less time talking about the Cadets and more time talking about other corps would certainly help to calm things down on DCP, and we can get back to enjoying the amazing competitions.

P.S. For those against this year's narration, also remember that your voice is important. Last year they changed their script a lot over the course of the summer, and certain things were pulled for Finals most likely because your voice was heard. So it's not like GH and his staff don't listen to you. Maybe not as much as you want them to, but they do listen, and I am sure they wish to entertain as much as the next corps. That is a natural inclination in all of us, and generally the Cadets have been a very entertaining corps. Sometimes the bigger picture must be considered when fussing about the little details. And for those that can tolerate some of this year's story, there is a really amazing drum corps underneath all of it.

JW

Edited June 30, 2008 by jwillis35

[Elmo Blatch]

The Cadets were booed in Naperville.

In six words, you summed it up.

[Brutus]

CADETS' 2008 SHOW

CONTEXT - WHAT WOULD CHANGE EVERYTHING

1) We find out this interviewee with breast cancer is really a former Cadet.

2) If that's not possible, have the interviewee appear at the shows. Acknowledge her during the show.

3) If that's not possible, change the content of the text to be about something relating to these performers' specific collective life experience outside performing where they worked to impact social change.

4) Or, if that's not possible, keep the text, and have the Cadets reveal through various media that they have volunteered at social organizations helping women with cancer, or helped with administrative support of various cancer outreach fundraising events.

If none of these things are possible, then the text has to be examined for why it was selected. The text is too specific, too heavy and too pointed in its content not to raise issues of how this piece relates to its performers in a real-world context.

DRUM CORP'S NEW INSTRUMENT: WORDS

Face it. There's a major transformation that is occurring in drum corps shows in this era. It isn't simply "narration" or "microphones". It is the addition of words to create dramatic action in drum corps shows. Before, "story" has been created in corps shows with the exclusive use of music and physical action and the occasional sung "Amen" or hearty scream before the Bacchanal. Now, show designers are like cavemen discovering the use of language for the first time, and learning the hard way that words are a powerful new instrument that support, transform, and even destroy music's inherent unspoken dramatic action. With words come issues of dialogue, character, stage picture, activity, emotion and a complete shift in audience focus. In the case of the Cadet's 2008 show, recreating an NPR radio interview of a softspoken breast cancer survivor, set to bold symphonic accompaniment no less, with no real-world explanation of the selected topic or how it relates to the performers is a reckless, amateurish attempt by design cavemen playing with fire.

PRESENT, PAST, FUTURE

The most powerful dramatic pieces are active, showing events occuring in the moment. The least powerful pieces feature people discussing things at a table, or talking only about something that happened in the distant past, or worse, pieces where people are talking about something that will happen in the future. The Cadets' piece features past events, doubly removed-- this is a drum corps interpretation of a past NPR interview about a woman's past, with no apparent relation to their role as performers.

HIGH STAKES

On radio, this woman's valiant softspoken euphemisms playfully undercut the weight of her struggles. But in a football stadium, retold by an actress projecting to a crowd of 35,000, any subtlety of character evaporates almost immediately, to disastrous effect. A flagrant design gaff.

ACTION SHOULD EQUAL THE PERFORMANCE SPACE

Designers have chosen to take the central dramatic action, the radio conversation, and make it "active" by recreating the interview at a broadcasting "desk", burdening the actors who have to nimbly relay the natural delivery and subtle emotion of the radio conversation, almost impossible in a football stadium. A subtle radio interview at a table might not be a good choice for a symphonic marching medium. The dramatic action of the story should probably equal the space it's delivered in. Also the passionate, thunderous 160 decibel drum corps sound does not match this Ira Glass interview of a breast cancer survivor in instrument, tone or arrangement.

THE VOICE ACTOR

The actors in the Cadets' show face insurmountable odds recreating snippets of an intimate radio interview for a football stadium. Should they imitate Ira Glass and his guest? Should they perform the roles as themselves, with an eye toward honest delivery and internalization? These actors, as evidenced last year, are struggling with the actor's typical opponents-- spontaneity, believability, honesty, projection, integration with music, and difficult text.

TEXT

Of all the earth's assembled literature, why this piece? Of all the inactive, undramatic, softspoken, subtle, impossible texts to reproduce in a marching symphonic performance medium for a football stadium, why this? This interview is way, way too "on the nose," for heightened symphonic accompaniment. It insults and alienates the audience with its "reality show" like musings and mundane "everyday" observations, which are supposed to be powerful in their subtlety, but don't match the energy of the music. Also, dramatic action shown in large outdoor venues typically draws in an audience by using heightened characters. The audience sees themselves in the mythic characters in heightened proportion, a proportion which matches the size of the venue.

PERFORMER'S IDENTITY

How does the performers' identity relate to message in this piece? We as the audience have no idea, and perhaps the members are facing the challenge that they might not, either. If the members themselves didn't choose this text, and without any information about real-world connection of the details of the text to its performers, audiences are likely to raise a host of issues about the artistic direction of the corps.

[Widge]

Silly poster, did you think that their show is written for the audience? Nah, it's written for the judges. The crowd reactions and judges scores reflect that.

Yes ...I see a growning trend that the show is concieved for the judging, and not for your paying audience.

If you have watched the George Hopkins pre show speech to the corps on DCI fan network , he stated "What people think is what they think. It's not about their opinion. " I readily admit that this quote is taken out of context, and that you should view it in its entirety. To give him credit, he does seem to praise his members work, and seems to really care about them as corps members.

I think that this ignoring of the fans in the stands, seems to be a growning trend. If you are playing to the handful of judges, and ignoring the thousand in the stands, you are probably doing something wrong. Both objectives can be accomplished , Blue Devils, SCV , and Phantom among most other corps are proving that continually.

[Widge]

The Cadets were booed in Naperville.

I hate to see that happen. The Corps is great, and the kids are really Working hard, and deserved not to be booed. It's the show that needs bood, not the performance.

Perhaps we need a way of communicating this . Maybe applauding while chanting " change it"

I know someone here will come up with a better idea than this, but the comcept is sound.

[dans]

I am probably one of the biggest Cadets fans on here and this years show concept makes me cringe! The narration is just dreadful and almost painful to listen to. I try to ignore it when I watch them, however, it is real tough to do. Why did the staff at Cadets approve such a bad concept? And then there's the prop, YIKES! I applaud the Cadets for trying a different appraoch to show design. My problem is that they missed the boat big time with this one and they will more than likely forge ahead in the same bad direction. I'm not going to get into the Hopkins bashing. I do respect the man but I am more than a little confused why he continues to pursue something that clearly does not work in this venue. The Cadets pursuit of happiness is making the vast majority of drum corps fans unhappy!

[Widge]

I could not help watching this show on the fan network and think what would be next year's theme...the Veh-jay-jay Monologues?

This is another scary thought......

Since the rules changes for next year allow for the use of water to be used on the field. ( a rule proposed by George Hopkins ) ....Will we see a "global warming" show next year....

If so I may just go to get a hot dog during that one.

[jwillis35]

CADETS' 2008 SHOW

CONTEXT - WHAT WOULD CHANGE EVERYTHING

1) We find out this interviewee with breast cancer is really a former Cadet.

2) If that's not possible, have the interviewee appear at the shows. Acknowledge her during the show.

3) If that's not possible, change the content of the text to be about something relating to these performers' specific collective life experience outside performing where they worked to impact social change.

4) Or, if that's not possible, keep the text, and have the Cadets reveal through various media that they have volunteered at social organizations helping women with cancer, or helped with administrative support of various cancer outreach fundraising events.

If none of these things are possible, then the text has to be examined for why it was selected. The text is too specific, too heavy and too pointed in its content not to raise issues of how this piece relates to its performers in a real-world context.

DRUM CORP'S NEW INSTRUMENT: WORDS

Face it. There's a major transformation that is occurring in drum corps shows in this era. It isn't simply "narration" or "microphones". It is the addition of words to create dramatic action in drum corps shows. Before, "story" has been created in corps shows with the exclusive use of music and physical action and the occasional sung "Amen" or hearty scream before the Bacchanal. Now, show designers are like cavemen discovering the use of language for the first time, and learning the hard way that words are a powerful new instrument that support, transform, and even destroy music's inherent unspoken dramatic action. With words come issues of dialogue, character, stage picture, activity, emotion and a complete shift in audience focus. In the case of the Cadet's 2008 show, recreating an NPR radio interview of a softspoken breast cancer survivor, set to bold symphonic accompaniment no less, with no real-world explanation of the selected topic or how it relates to the performers is a reckless, amateurish attempt by design cavemen playing with fire.

PRESENT, PAST, FUTURE

The most powerful dramatic pieces are active, showing events occuring in the moment. The least powerful pieces feature people discussing things at a table, or talking only about something that happened in the distant past, or worse, pieces where people are talking about something that will happen in the future. The Cadets' piece features past events, doubly removed-- this is a drum corps interpretation of a past NPR interview about a woman's past, with no apparent relation to their role as performers.

HIGH STAKES

On radio, this woman's valiant softspoken euphemisms playfully undercut the weight of her struggles. But in a football stadium, retold by an actress projecting to a crowd of 35,000, any subtlety of character evaporates almost immediately, to disastrous effect. A flagrant design gaff.

ACTION SHOULD EQUAL THE PERFORMANCE SPACE

Designers have chosen to take the central dramatic action, the radio conversation, and make it "active" by recreating the interview at a broadcasting "desk", burdening the actors who have to nimbly relay the natural delivery and subtle emotion of the radio conversation, almost impossible in a football stadium. A subtle radio interview at a table might not be a good choice for a symphonic marching medium. The dramatic action of the story should probably equal the space it's delivered in. Also the passionate, thunderous 160 decibel drum corps sound does not match this Ira Glass interview of a breast cancer survivor in instrument, tone or arrangement.

THE VOICE ACTOR

The actors in the Cadets' show face insurmountable odds recreating snippets of an intimate radio interview for a football stadium. Should they imitate Ira Glass and his guest? Should they perform the roles as themselves, with an eye toward honest delivery and internalization? These actors, as evidenced last year, are struggling with the actor's typical opponents-- spontaneity, believability, honesty, projection, integration with music, and difficult text.

TEXT

Of all the earth's assembled literature, why this piece? Of all the inactive, undramatic, softspoken, subtle, impossible texts to reproduce in a marching symphonic performance medium for a football stadium, why this? This interview is way, way too "on the nose," for heightened symphonic accompaniment. It insults and alienates the audience with its "reality show" like musings and mundane "everyday" observations, which are supposed to be powerful in their subtlety, but don't match the energy of the music. Also, dramatic action shown in large outdoor venues typically draws in an audience by using heightened characters. The audience sees themselves in the mythic characters in heightened proportion, a proportion which matches the size of the venue.

PERFORMER'S IDENTITY

How does the performers' identity relate to message in this piece? We as the audience have no idea, and perhaps the members are facing the challenge that they might not, either. If the members themselves didn't choose this text, and without any information about real-world connection of the details of the text to its performers, audiences are likely to raise a host of issues about the artistic direction of the corps.

BRavo! One of the best things I have read on here, and you explain your points so well without bashing. This is what I call discussion, opinion, some fact in there, and some philosophical awareness. I am one of the few who does not mind the show, but I realize most hate it, but your in depth look at it is very educated and logical. And I agree with your intro remarks about what the Cadets could do to make this better.

In the long run, this is something everyone should read, including Hoppy and his staff. This is much more engaging and meaningful than some of the childish remarks we get on both sides.

Congrats!

[jwillis35]

I definitely agree with this theory. A friend of mine and I were talking this weekend about this very thing. This may ring badly, but I don't know how else to phrase it...How do people still flock to The Cadets knowing that they're just George's little pawns in s#it stirring in order to change this activity? Or are people just that oblivious?

I respect the traditional (brass, percussion and colorguard) for how brilliantly they perform, but I can't even bring myself to respect what George Hopkins is doing here.

Really sorry if that came across and raised some hell, it wasn't intended to.

First, I believe you were the one who commented on the "Madison" post that whoever wrote the script should die of breast cancer. If not, I apologize, but I think I have this correct, and I must tell you that I was very upset about that. The Cadets have shown you NO HARM, ever, ever, ever. Sure, they perform a show that is not to the liking of many fans, and sometimes that can be hard to take, but there are many shows out there to love, especially these last few years. So enjoy what you can and don't be so critical of that which you don't understand, until you take the time to understand it a bit more.

You don't have to like the show, and most don't, but those commends were just out of line.

As to your question: did you ever think that there are people out there that like that which you do NOT? There are plenty of musicians and marchers who would love to march that show (count me in). I do not think like you, nor do those kids who are marching Cadets. Do they not have a place in this activity? Are they not allowed to enjoy this show? Is your opinion the only thing that matters? Should there only be ONE kind of drum corps?

To me it's simple: you either like it or not, but the insults are wrong. I can accept people disliking the show and using good argument for or against certain things in the show. I can accept good solid discussion about the topics at large, but I cannot stand the insults that spew forth from venomous people who would prefer to bring misery to the situation than bring logical argument. I highly doubt the Cadets are trying to hurt people's feelings, be insulting, and I doubt their mission is to #### everyone off and destroy drum corps.

Now, you can say this is what they are doing. Great...your opinion. But the facts don't always back that up. One could also make a case that of the top 3 corps (Cadets, Cavaliers, and BD), that from 1980 to now the Cadets have been the more entertaining corps with some of the most amazing shows ever. In the larger scheme they always seem to find themselves while redefining what they do, and I think this will happen again. Sometimes creation is messy, and the last 3 years or so have seen lots of things from corps. Where will it go, I don't know, but I enjoy watching it and I take the good with the band. And right now I see more good, and I don't see everyone copying the Cadets, as many had feared.

JW

[StarPhantom]

I will be wearing my newly made "Sara Jones - the woman who ruined my favorite drum corps" t-shirt to finals this year. I will never boo The Cadets...but I will not applaud something I can't stand.

I am honestly heartbroken about how much I hate this show...not the corps, the show.